| Dang - syrup gone buggy :( [message #88721] |
Mi, 08 Juni 2005 13:16 |
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Okay - I don't know what I'm going to have to do to ensure I get some
blueberry syrup. Last year after several failures where the racoons
got to the fermenting blueberries in the jar outside I finally gave up
because there wasn't enough time left in the summer to go for another
batch.
This year? Well with the hot sun the fermenting process was going
really well - in 2 weeks there was the equivalent of a month's sitting
in the sunshine. So late yesterday afternoon I took off the
cheesecloth and inhaled. Ah bliss!... and noticed a movement - little
black bug. What? Took a closer look and damned if the whole batch was
infested with tiny black beetles about 1/16" x 1/4"! Dozens of 'em.
Tossed the batch. How in hell they got in there when I put 8 layers of
cheesecloth over the top and kept it nice and tight with a heavy duty
elastic band, but there they were.
I don't get it. I bring the jar in late afternoon so the coons don't
come visit thinking I'm running a cafeteria like last year...
Any ideas how they might have gotten in there, and wondering if I
start the process over again but cap the jar with the lid after a few
days (waiting for the wild yeast to do its' thing first), or am I
going to wind up with rotted slop if I cap it. Dang! Sure would like
some syrup but my experiments with blueberries are getting expensive.
Karen (frustrated)
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| Re: Dang - syrup gone buggy :( [message #88726 ] |
Mi, 08 Juni 2005 17:09 |
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justme wrote:
> Okay - I don't know what I'm going to have to do to ensure I get some
> blueberry syrup. Last year after several failures where the racoons
> got to the fermenting blueberries in the jar outside I finally gave up
> because there wasn't enough time left in the summer to go for another
> batch.
>
> This year? Well with the hot sun the fermenting process was going
> really well - in 2 weeks there was the equivalent of a month's sitting
> in the sunshine. So late yesterday afternoon I took off the
> cheesecloth and inhaled. Ah bliss!... and noticed a movement - little
> black bug. What? Took a closer look and damned if the whole batch was
> infested with tiny black beetles about 1/16" x 1/4"! Dozens of 'em.
> Tossed the batch. How in hell they got in there when I put 8 layers of
> cheesecloth over the top and kept it nice and tight with a heavy duty
> elastic band, but there they were.
>
> I don't get it. I bring the jar in late afternoon so the coons don't
> come visit thinking I'm running a cafeteria like last year...
>
> Any ideas how they might have gotten in there, and wondering if I
> start the process over again but cap the jar with the lid after a few
> days (waiting for the wild yeast to do its' thing first), or am I
> going to wind up with rotted slop if I cap it. Dang! Sure would like
> some syrup but my experiments with blueberries are getting expensive.
>
> Karen (frustrated)
Maybe the eggs were already on the berries.
Ellen
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| Re: Dang - syrup gone buggy :( [message #88727 ] |
Mi, 08 Juni 2005 18:52 |
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justme wrote:
> Okay - I don't know what I'm going to have to do to ensure I get some
> blueberry syrup. (clipped zoo stories ... ) wondering if I
> start the process over again but cap the jar with the lid after a few
> days (waiting for the wild yeast to do its' thing first), or am I
> going to wind up with rotted slop if I cap it. Dang! Sure would like
> some syrup but my experiments with blueberries are getting expensive.
> Karen (frustrated)
I dunno but you're making an extra step in there. Any particular reason
for fermenting? I've made syrups by simmering fruits in enuf water to
cover & half or more of sugar and 1 teaspoon of corn syrup (to prevent
crystallization) for awhile until it looks right. Not very scientific, but
I didn't keep records back then. Then BWB for 10 min per pint plus
altitude adj. I believe the Ball Blue Book (and a couple of other canning
texts) have recipes for syrups without fermenting, but they're laying a
new floor in my living room and everything is AFU. Couldn't find the
national debt in this place today.
Edrena
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| Re: Dang - syrup gone buggy :( [message #89100 ] |
Do, 09 Juni 2005 15:07 |
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ellen wickberg wrote:
>
> > Karen (frustrated)
> Maybe the eggs were already on the berries.
> Ellen
I bought the blueberries already frozen, and looked them over before
putting them in the jar. No bugs. Somehow the bugs got into the jar.
Nurtz.
Karen
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| Re: Dang - syrup gone buggy :( [message #89101 ] |
Do, 09 Juni 2005 15:09 |
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The Joneses wrote:
>
> justme wrote:
>
> > Okay - I don't know what I'm going to have to do to ensure I get some
> > blueberry syrup. (clipped zoo stories ... ) wondering if I
> > start the process over again but cap the jar with the lid after a few
> > days (waiting for the wild yeast to do its' thing first), or am I
> > going to wind up with rotted slop if I cap it. Dang! Sure would like
> > some syrup but my experiments with blueberries are getting expensive.
> > Karen (frustrated)
>
> I dunno but you're making an extra step in there. Any particular reason
> for fermenting? I've made syrups by simmering fruits in enuf water to
> cover & half or more of sugar and 1 teaspoon of corn syrup (to prevent
> crystallization) for awhile until it looks right. Not very scientific, but
> I didn't keep records back then. Then BWB for 10 min per pint plus
> altitude adj. I believe the Ball Blue Book (and a couple of other canning
> texts) have recipes for syrups without fermenting, but they're laying a
> new floor in my living room and everything is AFU. Couldn't find the
> national debt in this place today.
> Edrena
I think I'm going to have to do it that way in future. The only reason
I'm doing it this way is that's how I learned to do it from Ma and
Grandma who fermented it out in the sun. The aroma is half the joy!
Thanks for your help, I made notes and I'm going to pick up some more
blueberries in town next week. I really do need my blueberry fix! <g>
Karen (daydreaming of blueberries!)
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| Re: Dang - syrup gone buggy :( [message #89103 ] |
Do, 09 Juni 2005 15:25 |
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The cheesecloth (muslin) was probably too porous. Try tying regular cloth
over the mouth of the jar, a tea towel should work. Chances are the
breeding season for that bug is over and if you try again they won't be
hatching in your syrup.
--
------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------
William R Watt National Capital FreeNet Ottawa's free community network
homepage: www.ncf.ca/~ag384/top.htm
warning: non-FreeNet email must have "notspam" in subject or it's returned
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| Re: Dang - syrup gone buggy :( [message #89105 ] |
Do, 09 Juni 2005 18:25 |
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justme wrote:
>
> ellen wickberg wrote:
>
>
>>>Karen (frustrated)
>>
>>Maybe the eggs were already on the berries.
>>Ellen
>
>
> I bought the blueberries already frozen, and looked them over before
> putting them in the jar. No bugs. Somehow the bugs got into the jar.
> Nurtz.
>
> Karen
I am not sure how visible most bug eggs are ( I am not talking about the
bugs themselves) nor whether freezing will kill them.
Ellen
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| Re: Dang - syrup gone buggy :( [message #89112 ] |
Do, 09 Juni 2005 20:18 |
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justme wrote:
>
> The Joneses wrote:
>
>>justme wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Okay - I don't know what I'm going to have to do to ensure I get some
>>>blueberry syrup. (clipped zoo stories ... ) wondering if I
>>>start the process over again but cap the jar with the lid after a few
>>>days (waiting for the wild yeast to do its' thing first), or am I
>>>going to wind up with rotted slop if I cap it. Dang! Sure would like
>>>some syrup but my experiments with blueberries are getting expensive.
>>>Karen (frustrated)
>>
>>I dunno but you're making an extra step in there. Any particular reason
>>for fermenting? I've made syrups by simmering fruits in enuf water to
>>cover & half or more of sugar and 1 teaspoon of corn syrup (to prevent
>>crystallization) for awhile until it looks right. Not very scientific, but
>>I didn't keep records back then. Then BWB for 10 min per pint plus
>>altitude adj. I believe the Ball Blue Book (and a couple of other canning
>>texts) have recipes for syrups without fermenting, but they're laying a
>>new floor in my living room and everything is AFU. Couldn't find the
>>national debt in this place today.
>>Edrena
>
>
> I think I'm going to have to do it that way in future. The only reason
> I'm doing it this way is that's how I learned to do it from Ma and
> Grandma who fermented it out in the sun. The aroma is half the joy!
>
> Thanks for your help, I made notes and I'm going to pick up some more
> blueberries in town next week. I really do need my blueberry fix! <g>
>
> Karen (daydreaming of blueberries!)
Karen, could you possibly do your set-up then make a tent of fine mesh
with the set-up in the middle to prevent bugs from getting in yet let
the wild yeast in? Another possibility might be sitting the set-up in a
sunny window. I'm curious about the fermenting. How long do you let
the syrup ferment? Once it is fermented, do you seal using BWB or just
put into the fridge?
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| Re: Dang - syrup gone buggy :( [message #89117 ] |
Do, 09 Juni 2005 21:56 |
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>>Okay - I don't know what I'm going to have to do to ensure I get some
>>blueberry syrup. (clipped zoo stories ... ) wondering if I
>>start the process over again but cap the jar with the lid after a few
>>days (waiting for the wild yeast to do its' thing first), or am I
>>going to wind up with rotted slop if I cap it. Dang! Sure would like
>>some syrup but my experiments with blueberries are getting expensive.
>>Karen (frustrated)
....
> ... I'm curious about the fermenting. How long do you let
> the syrup ferment? Once it is fermented, do you seal using BWB or just
> put into the fridge?
I'm curious too...
It seems to me that if you ferment the berries all the way out, the
syrup won't be sweet - but very alcoholic.
If you don't ferment it all the way, how do you stop/slow it?
Pastuerization? BWB? Freezing or refridgeration?
If you don't stop it, and bottle it before it is finished, how do you
prevent exploding bottles/jars (since the yeast will continue to produce
lots of CO2)?
You might try adding your own yeast instead of relying on wild ones...
a wine yeast from a homebrewing store might be a good choice. You could
pastuerize the berries first (heat to 140F for 20 minutes or so), cover,
cool, and then introduce the yeast, and then loosely cover it. Once you
reach your desired point of sweetness/alcohol content, I guess that BWB
would kill off the yeast to stop it (if your jar tops bulge, be careful!
- you might have hand grenades! :)
Derric
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| Re: Dang - syrup gone buggy :( [message #89121 ] |
Fr, 10 Juni 2005 02:43 |
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Derric wrote:
> ... I guess that BWB would kill off the yeast to stop it (if your jar
> tops bulge, be careful! - you might have hand grenades! :)
Berrytov cocktails.
B/
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| Re: Dang - syrup gone buggy :( [message #90124 ] |
Fr, 10 Juni 2005 13:54 |
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I was looking through a book called "Back to Basics" yesterday.
Apparently fermentation is a method of perservation not limited to wines.
--
------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------
William R Watt National Capital FreeNet Ottawa's free community network
homepage: www.ncf.ca/~ag384/top.htm
warning: non-FreeNet email must have "notspam" in subject or it's returned
|
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| Re: Dang - syrup gone buggy :( [message #90179 ] |
Mo, 13 Juni 2005 07:58 |
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justme wrote:
> Okay - I don't know what I'm going to have to do to ensure I get some
> blueberry syrup. Last year after several failures where the racoons
> got to the fermenting blueberries in the jar outside I finally gave up
> because there wasn't enough time left in the summer to go for another
> batch.
[snip]
I'm not familiar with what you're doing, but the fermentation process
reminds me of some stuff I've done in making beer, and making yoghurt.
Why not just leave it inside? If this is yeast like bread yeast, then
you can incubate the stuff in their containers, inside a cooler, with a
night light providing additional heat. Room temperature works, but not
if you're in a hurry.
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| Re: Dang - syrup gone buggy :( [message #91467 ] |
Mi, 15 Juni 2005 15:45 |
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"William R. Watt" wrote:
>
> The cheesecloth (muslin) was probably too porous. Try tying regular cloth
> over the mouth of the jar, a tea towel should work. Chances are the
> breeding season for that bug is over and if you try again they won't be
> hatching in your syrup.
>
You're probably right. I'll try again, but this time I'll use a small
tea towel.
------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------
> William R Watt National Capital FreeNet Ottawa's free community network
> homepage: www.ncf.ca/~ag384/top.htm
> warning: non-FreeNet email must have "notspam" in subject or it's returned
|
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| Re: Dang - syrup gone buggy :( [message #91468 ] |
Mi, 15 Juni 2005 15:48 |
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~patches~ wrote:
>
> justme wrote:
>
> >
> > The Joneses wrote:
> >
> >>justme wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>Okay - I don't know what I'm going to have to do to ensure I get some
> >>>blueberry syrup. (clipped zoo stories ... ) wondering if I
> >>>start the process over again but cap the jar with the lid after a few
> >>>days (waiting for the wild yeast to do its' thing first), or am I
> >>>going to wind up with rotted slop if I cap it. Dang! Sure would like
> >>>some syrup but my experiments with blueberries are getting expensive.
> >>>Karen (frustrated)
> >>
> >>I dunno but you're making an extra step in there. Any particular reason
> >>for fermenting? I've made syrups by simmering fruits in enuf water to
> >>cover & half or more of sugar and 1 teaspoon of corn syrup (to prevent
> >>crystallization) for awhile until it looks right. Not very scientific, but
> >>I didn't keep records back then. Then BWB for 10 min per pint plus
> >>altitude adj. I believe the Ball Blue Book (and a couple of other canning
> >>texts) have recipes for syrups without fermenting, but they're laying a
> >>new floor in my living room and everything is AFU. Couldn't find the
> >>national debt in this place today.
> >>Edrena
> >
> >
> > I think I'm going to have to do it that way in future. The only reason
> > I'm doing it this way is that's how I learned to do it from Ma and
> > Grandma who fermented it out in the sun. The aroma is half the joy!
> >
> > Thanks for your help, I made notes and I'm going to pick up some more
> > blueberries in town next week. I really do need my blueberry fix! <g>
> >
> > Karen (daydreaming of blueberries!)
>
> Karen, could you possibly do your set-up then make a tent of fine mesh
> with the set-up in the middle to prevent bugs from getting in yet let
> the wild yeast in? Another possibility might be sitting the set-up in a
> sunny window. I'm curious about the fermenting. How long do you let
> the syrup ferment? Once it is fermented, do you seal using BWB or just
> put into the fridge?
From how Mom and Grandma made the syrup, they'd allow it to set in the
sun pretty much for June and July. By the end of July the berries
would turn into hard little shrivelled BBs and would be discarded. The
the lyrup would be poured through several layers of cheese cloth in a
seive, bottled and all but one jar in the freezer, one jar in the
fridge.
Wonderful stuff! :-)
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| Re: Dang - syrup gone buggy :( [message #91469 ] |
Mi, 15 Juni 2005 15:49 |
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Derric wrote:
>
> >>Okay - I don't know what I'm going to have to do to ensure I get some
> >>blueberry syrup. (clipped zoo stories ... ) wondering if I
> >>start the process over again but cap the jar with the lid after a few
> >>days (waiting for the wild yeast to do its' thing first), or am I
> >>going to wind up with rotted slop if I cap it. Dang! Sure would like
> >>some syrup but my experiments with blueberries are getting expensive.
> >>Karen (frustrated)
> ...
> > ... I'm curious about the fermenting. How long do you let
> > the syrup ferment? Once it is fermented, do you seal using BWB or just
> > put into the fridge?
>
> I'm curious too...
>
> It seems to me that if you ferment the berries all the way out, the
> syrup won't be sweet - but very alcoholic.
>
> If you don't ferment it all the way, how do you stop/slow it?
> Pastuerization? BWB? Freezing or refridgeration?
>
> If you don't stop it, and bottle it before it is finished, how do you
> prevent exploding bottles/jars (since the yeast will continue to produce
> lots of CO2)?
>
> You might try adding your own yeast instead of relying on wild ones...
> a wine yeast from a homebrewing store might be a good choice. You could
> pastuerize the berries first (heat to 140F for 20 minutes or so), cover,
> cool, and then introduce the yeast, and then loosely cover it. Once you
> reach your desired point of sweetness/alcohol content, I guess that BWB
> would kill off the yeast to stop it (if your jar tops bulge, be careful!
> - you might have hand grenades! :)
LOL!! What a way to redecorate the pantry! :-)
Thanks for the info on yeast, btw :)
>
> Derric
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| Re: Dang - syrup gone buggy :( [message #91470 ] |
Mi, 15 Juni 2005 15:50 |
|
Adam Preble wrote:
>
> justme wrote:
> > Okay - I don't know what I'm going to have to do to ensure I get some
> > blueberry syrup. Last year after several failures where the racoons
> > got to the fermenting blueberries in the jar outside I finally gave up
> > because there wasn't enough time left in the summer to go for another
> > batch.
> [snip]
>
> I'm not familiar with what you're doing, but the fermentation process
> reminds me of some stuff I've done in making beer, and making yoghurt.
> Why not just leave it inside? If this is yeast like bread yeast, then
> you can incubate the stuff in their containers, inside a cooler, with a
> night light providing additional heat. Room temperature works, but not
> if you're in a hurry.
Sounds interesting! Thanks for the info, it hadn't occurred to me...
:)
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| Re: Dang - syrup gone buggy :( [message #91472 ] |
Mi, 15 Juni 2005 16:57 |
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justme wrote:
>
> ~patches~ wrote:
>
>>justme wrote:
>>
>>
>>>The Joneses wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>justme wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Okay - I don't know what I'm going to have to do to ensure I get some
>>>>>blueberry syrup. (clipped zoo stories ... ) wondering if I
>>>>>start the process over again but cap the jar with the lid after a few
>>>>>days (waiting for the wild yeast to do its' thing first), or am I
>>>>>going to wind up with rotted slop if I cap it. Dang! Sure would like
>>>>>some syrup but my experiments with blueberries are getting expensive.
>>>>>Karen (frustrated)
>>>>
>>>>I dunno but you're making an extra step in there. Any particular reason
>>>>for fermenting? I've made syrups by simmering fruits in enuf water to
>>>>cover & half or more of sugar and 1 teaspoon of corn syrup (to prevent
>>>>crystallization) for awhile until it looks right. Not very scientific, but
>>>>I didn't keep records back then. Then BWB for 10 min per pint plus
>>>>altitude adj. I believe the Ball Blue Book (and a couple of other canning
>>>>texts) have recipes for syrups without fermenting, but they're laying a
>>>>new floor in my living room and everything is AFU. Couldn't find the
>>>>national debt in this place today.
>>>>Edrena
>>>
>>>
>>>I think I'm going to have to do it that way in future. The only reason
>>>I'm doing it this way is that's how I learned to do it from Ma and
>>>Grandma who fermented it out in the sun. The aroma is half the joy!
>>>
>>>Thanks for your help, I made notes and I'm going to pick up some more
>>>blueberries in town next week. I really do need my blueberry fix! <g>
>>>
>>>Karen (daydreaming of blueberries!)
>>
>>Karen, could you possibly do your set-up then make a tent of fine mesh
>>with the set-up in the middle to prevent bugs from getting in yet let
>>the wild yeast in? Another possibility might be sitting the set-up in a
>>sunny window. I'm curious about the fermenting. How long do you let
>>the syrup ferment? Once it is fermented, do you seal using BWB or just
>>put into the fridge?
>
>
> From how Mom and Grandma made the syrup, they'd allow it to set in the
> sun pretty much for June and July. By the end of July the berries
> would turn into hard little shrivelled BBs and would be discarded. The
> the lyrup would be poured through several layers of cheese cloth in a
> seive, bottled and all but one jar in the freezer, one jar in the
> fridge.
>
> Wonderful stuff! :-)
There you go, Mom and Grannie were straining out the beetles and any
other wildlife that got in there. <VBG>
George
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| Re: Dang - syrup gone buggy :( [message #91479 ] |
Do, 16 Juni 2005 08:04 |
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justme wrote:
> Sounds interesting! Thanks for the info, it hadn't occurred to me...
> :)
Well OK then, some more things to add.
I don't know if you make bread, but you will likely find the dough will
rise faster in a warm environment. The yeast is generally more active.
I don't have the notes here, but I was reading that the optimal spot
for yeast is below 90 degrees (Fahrenheit) but above room temperature
(regarded as 72 degrees). I've been aiming for about 82 degrees.
I was incubating homemade root beer because I wanted the fizz, fast.
Yeast produces carbon dioxide that can be used to carbonize soda if left
all pressurized. To speed it up to just a few days, I stuck the bottles
in a cooler. The nightlight had the most inefficient light bulb I could
find; I wanted the heat, not the light. I used a digital thermometer to
keep track of it -- and begin beeping if the thing warmed up past 84
degrees. It never did.
If you want to be really paranoid about your stuff getting caught up in
something, treat it like you would making beer. That would mean going
to a homebrew store at least to get an airlock and a bung. Assuming
your container has a small spout, you can shove the bung in there and
then the airlock. This is a device that suspends a cap in a little
water. When the pressure inside your tank gets too high, it'll lift up
and release some gas. Afterwards, it immediately drops down back into
the water.
It's very sanitary; nothing's going to get into your stuff, unless it
was there beforehand. Clean everything! You might be able to improvise
an airlock if you cannot otherwise find one. Good luck creating the
base that'll seal into your spout, but I always thought a prescription
bottle would make an appropriate cap.
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| Re: Dang - syrup gone buggy :( [message #91480 ] |
Do, 16 Juni 2005 08:12 |
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justme wrote:
>
> Adam Preble wrote:
>
>>justme wrote:
>>
>>>Okay - I don't know what I'm going to have to do to ensure I get some
>>>blueberry syrup. Last year after several failures where the racoons
>>>got to the fermenting blueberries in the jar outside I finally gave up
>>>because there wasn't enough time left in the summer to go for another
>>>batch.
>>
>>[snip]
>>
>>I'm not familiar with what you're doing, but the fermentation process
>>reminds me of some stuff I've done in making beer, and making yoghurt.
>>Why not just leave it inside? If this is yeast like bread yeast, then
>>you can incubate the stuff in their containers, inside a cooler, with a
>>night light providing additional heat. Room temperature works, but not
>>if you're in a hurry.
>
>
> Sounds interesting! Thanks for the info, it hadn't occurred to me...
> :)
Just an additional disclaimer: I've been pouncing on the term
"fermenting." I don't really know about fermenting syrup, and bringing
it up in google tends to come up with ways ot adding syrup to a wine
must. Hopefully the context here is correct. If not, somebody more
experienced than either of us must be enjoying themselves reading this
right now . . .
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