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Food » alt.food.vegan » Advice needed re. bacon in Vegetarian meal
| Advice needed re. bacon in Vegetarian meal [message #119319] |
Tue, 09 August 2005 18:55 |
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Hi
Hoping somebody has some advice on how is best to proceed...
I was absolutely mortified after finding a piece of bacon in my
peas/carrots whilst out for a Yate's "vegetarian roast" on sunday. I
have been veggie for 17 years (the proper non-fish eating, non-gelatine
eating type!!!!) so as you can imagine I'm feeling pretty sick to the
stomach - thank God I didn't eat it, tho the thought of having eaten
vegetables that had been in contact with it - well, I won't dwell on
that one, I'm sure you get the idea.
The manager was pleasant and sympathetic, gave us a refund and said I
should contact head office and "take it as far as I'd like". Have to
say I feel like suing the ars*s off em, but this is the UK, so probably
not likely to happen. He thinks it was a cross-contamination - probably
fell off a bacon something or another on a higher shelf, tho frankly I
don't think that is acceptable!
Anybody have any ideas who I should call - they obviously need some
sort of inspection & to look at their kitchen design.
Any advice would be gratefully received.
Lisa
x
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| Re: Advice needed re. bacon in Vegetarian meal [message #121918 ] |
Tue, 09 August 2005 20:04 |
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LittleMissTerious wrote:
> Hi
>
> Hoping somebody has some advice on how is best to proceed...
>
> I was absolutely mortified after finding a piece of bacon in my
> peas/carrots whilst out for a Yate's "vegetarian roast" on sunday. I
> have been veggie for 17 years (the proper non-fish eating, non-gelatine
> eating type!!!!) so as you can imagine I'm feeling pretty sick to the
> stomach - thank God I didn't eat it, tho the thought of having eaten
> vegetables that had been in contact with it - well, I won't dwell on
> that one, I'm sure you get the idea.
>
> The manager was pleasant and sympathetic, gave us a refund and said I
> should contact head office and "take it as far as I'd like". Have to
> say I feel like suing the ars*s off em, but this is the UK, so probably
> not likely to happen. He thinks it was a cross-contamination - probably
> fell off a bacon something or another on a higher shelf, tho frankly I
> don't think that is acceptable!
>
> Anybody have any ideas who I should call - they obviously need some
> sort of inspection & to look at their kitchen design.
>
> Any advice would be gratefully received.
>
> Lisa
Lisa,
If is very common for restaurants to flavor veggies with meat. It is
likely intentional. Suggest a side dish. I doubt they will go for it.
Best of luck. It also shows that they use their meat cutting
implements around veggies, which is a health risk.
> x
>
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| Re: Advice needed re. bacon in Vegetarian meal [message #121920 ] |
Wed, 10 August 2005 00:42 |
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I hate to say that in the UK, and I can't comment on anywhere else as I live
in London, it's quite common, unless you eat in a veggie restaurant (and
there are some nice ones about), it will happen - they pay lip service to
veggie food. I was in a cafe in Greenwich with my parents, I'm veggie,
they're Kosher. We ordered the set veggie breakfast, after 10 mins they
said sorry there's a delay they got the order wrong, fair enough we said.
When the food finally came out, under my dad's veggie sausage was a piece of
bacon! They'd obviously (badly) scraped off the wrong order and replaced
our food on top, missing the piece of pig. You can't guarantee that they
don't cook the same food (i.e. a veggie burger) in the same oil/pan/grill
whatever as the meat ones. It's getting better but we have a long way to
go, I went to a pub that does a Sunday rosat, and it was amazing, they had 3
yes 3 veggie choice for main course, with 7 veg, spuds, yorkshire, stuffing
etc., and the amazing thing proper veggie gravy, yum. It was great and we
would go there again, but I won't ask them if they use the same pans etc.
"LittleMissTerious" <lisa.schollar [at] ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:1123608716.671742.218460 [at] o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> Hi
>
> Hoping somebody has some advice on how is best to proceed...
>
> I was absolutely mortified after finding a piece of bacon in my
> peas/carrots whilst out for a Yate's "vegetarian roast" on sunday. I
> have been veggie for 17 years (the proper non-fish eating, non-gelatine
> eating type!!!!) so as you can imagine I'm feeling pretty sick to the
> stomach - thank God I didn't eat it, tho the thought of having eaten
> vegetables that had been in contact with it - well, I won't dwell on
> that one, I'm sure you get the idea.
>
> The manager was pleasant and sympathetic, gave us a refund and said I
> should contact head office and "take it as far as I'd like". Have to
> say I feel like suing the ars*s off em, but this is the UK, so probably
> not likely to happen. He thinks it was a cross-contamination - probably
> fell off a bacon something or another on a higher shelf, tho frankly I
> don't think that is acceptable!
>
> Anybody have any ideas who I should call - they obviously need some
> sort of inspection & to look at their kitchen design.
>
> Any advice would be gratefully received.
>
> Lisa
> x
>
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| Re: Advice needed re. bacon in Vegetarian meal [message #121963 ] |
Thu, 11 August 2005 05:20 |
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Masha wrote:
> I hate to say that in the UK, and I can't comment on anywhere else as I live
> in London, it's quite common, unless you eat in a veggie restaurant (and
> there are some nice ones about), it will happen - they pay lip service to
> veggie food. I was in a cafe in Greenwich with my parents, I'm veggie,
> they're Kosher. We ordered the set veggie breakfast, after 10 mins they
> said sorry there's a delay they got the order wrong, fair enough we said.
> When the food finally came out, under my dad's veggie sausage was a piece of
> bacon! They'd obviously (badly) scraped off the wrong order and replaced
> our food on top, missing the piece of pig. You can't guarantee that they
> don't cook the same food (i.e. a veggie burger) in the same oil/pan/grill
> whatever as the meat ones. It's getting better but we have a long way to
> go, I went to a pub that does a Sunday rosat, and it was amazing, they had 3
> yes 3 veggie choice for main course, with 7 veg, spuds, yorkshire, stuffing
> etc., and the amazing thing proper veggie gravy, yum. It was great and we
> would go there again, but I won't ask them if they use the same pans etc.
>
>
> "LittleMissTerious" <lisa.schollar [at] ntlworld.com> wrote in message
> news:1123608716.671742.218460 [at] o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
>
>>Hi
>>
>>Hoping somebody has some advice on how is best to proceed...
>>
>>I was absolutely mortified after finding a piece of bacon in my
>>peas/carrots whilst out for a Yate's "vegetarian roast" on sunday. I
>>have been veggie for 17 years (the proper non-fish eating, non-gelatine
>>eating type!!!!) so as you can imagine I'm feeling pretty sick to the
>>stomach - thank God I didn't eat it, tho the thought of having eaten
>>vegetables that had been in contact with it - well, I won't dwell on
>>that one, I'm sure you get the idea.
>>
>>The manager was pleasant and sympathetic, gave us a refund and said I
>>should contact head office and "take it as far as I'd like". Have to
>>say I feel like suing the ars*s off em, but this is the UK, so probably
>>not likely to happen. He thinks it was a cross-contamination - probably
>>fell off a bacon something or another on a higher shelf, tho frankly I
>>don't think that is acceptable!
>>
>>Anybody have any ideas who I should call - they obviously need some
>>sort of inspection & to look at their kitchen design.
>>
>>Any advice would be gratefully received.
>>
>>Lisa
>>x
>>
>
That demonstrates that Kosher laws were scientifically correct, that
food mixing in preparation was a real concern. Now we see the same
problem with vegetarian contamination.
And of course, it is well known that cross food contamination is common
at most restaurants. They use the same knife or board to cut the dead
flesh as chop veggies resulting in diseases like E Coli.
Your concern is well placed. People that have worked in the restaurant
business will tell you how unhealthy they are with few exceptions. And
the workers often lack basic hygiene that handle your food. One should
be careful where they eat, and don't be embarrassed to inspect. If the
bathroom isn't clean, how can the food be? If they don't take proper
care of their garbage, that's a terrible sign.
>
>
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| Re: Advice needed re. bacon in Vegetarian meal [message #121965 ] |
Thu, 11 August 2005 05:12 |
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Masha wrote:
> I hate to say that in the UK, and I can't comment on anywhere else as I live
> in London, it's quite common, unless you eat in a veggie restaurant (and
> there are some nice ones about), it will happen - they pay lip service to
> veggie food. I was in a cafe in Greenwich with my parents, I'm veggie,
> they're Kosher. We ordered the set veggie breakfast, after 10 mins they
> said sorry there's a delay they got the order wrong, fair enough we said.
> When the food finally came out, under my dad's veggie sausage was a piece of
> bacon! They'd obviously (badly) scraped off the wrong order and replaced
> our food on top, missing the piece of pig. You can't guarantee that they
> don't cook the same food (i.e. a veggie burger) in the same oil/pan/grill
> whatever as the meat ones. It's getting better but we have a long way to
> go, I went to a pub that does a Sunday rosat, and it was amazing, they had 3
> yes 3 veggie choice for main course, with 7 veg, spuds, yorkshire, stuffing
> etc., and the amazing thing proper veggie gravy, yum. It was great and we
> would go there again, but I won't ask them if they use the same pans etc.
>
Of course, according to Usual Suspects Kosher is a sickness. He is an
anti semite.
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| Re: Advice needed re. bacon in Vegetarian meal [message #121974 ] |
Thu, 11 August 2005 18:54 |
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Beach Runner wrote:
>> I hate to say that in the UK, and I can't comment on anywhere else as
>> I live
>> in London, it's quite common, unless you eat in a veggie restaurant (and
>> there are some nice ones about), it will happen - they pay lip service to
>> veggie food. I was in a cafe in Greenwich with my parents, I'm veggie,
>> they're Kosher. We ordered the set veggie breakfast, after 10 mins they
>> said sorry there's a delay they got the order wrong, fair enough we said.
>> When the food finally came out, under my dad's veggie sausage was a
>> piece of
>> bacon! They'd obviously (badly) scraped off the wrong order and replaced
>> our food on top, missing the piece of pig. You can't guarantee that they
>> don't cook the same food (i.e. a veggie burger) in the same oil/pan/grill
>> whatever as the meat ones. It's getting better but we have a long way to
>> go, I went to a pub that does a Sunday rosat, and it was amazing, they
>> had 3
>> yes 3 veggie choice for main course, with 7 veg, spuds, yorkshire,
>> stuffing
>> etc., and the amazing thing proper veggie gravy, yum. It was great
>> and we
>> would go there again, but I won't ask them if they use the same pans etc.
>>
>>
>> "LittleMissTerious" <lisa.schollar [at] ntlworld.com> wrote in message
>> news:1123608716.671742.218460 [at] o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
>>
>>> Hi
>>>
>>> Hoping somebody has some advice on how is best to proceed...
>>>
>>> I was absolutely mortified after finding a piece of bacon in my
>>> peas/carrots whilst out for a Yate's "vegetarian roast" on sunday. I
>>> have been veggie for 17 years (the proper non-fish eating, non-gelatine
>>> eating type!!!!) so as you can imagine I'm feeling pretty sick to the
>>> stomach - thank God I didn't eat it, tho the thought of having eaten
>>> vegetables that had been in contact with it - well, I won't dwell on
>>> that one, I'm sure you get the idea.
>>>
>>> The manager was pleasant and sympathetic, gave us a refund and said I
>>> should contact head office and "take it as far as I'd like". Have to
>>> say I feel like suing the ars*s off em, but this is the UK, so probably
>>> not likely to happen. He thinks it was a cross-contamination - probably
>>> fell off a bacon something or another on a higher shelf, tho frankly I
>>> don't think that is acceptable!
>>>
>>> Anybody have any ideas who I should call - they obviously need some
>>> sort of inspection & to look at their kitchen design.
>>>
>>> Any advice would be gratefully received.
>>>
>>> Lisa
>>> x
>
> That demonstrates that Kosher laws were scientifically correct,
No, it doesn't. Non sequitur. I can't believe how stupid you are.
> that food mixing in preparation was a real concern.
It was NOT a concern. People have long mixed foods and ingredients. It
has NO bearing on health so long as the ingredients aren't contaminated.
> Now we see the same
> problem with vegetarian contamination.
It's not a problem. She got a refund. They'll try to figure out what
happened and insure it doesn't happen again.
> And of course, it is well known that cross food contamination is common
> at most restaurants.
She didn't get PHYSICALLY ill, numb nuts. She's having a MENTAL
breakdown because of an irrational fear that somehow she's no longer as
"pure" as she was beforehand because some of the food passing down her
throat merely came into contact with something she finds offensive. She
is orthorexic.
> They use the same knife or board to cut the dead
> flesh as chop veggies resulting in diseases like E Coli.
E coli isn't spread by contact with flesh, but rather through fecal
contamination. E coli can contaminate produce which NEVER comes into
contact with meat. That was the case when Odwalla juices sickened small
children because their hippie parents thought "unpasteurized organic"
foods and juices were somehow superior to anything else.
> Your concern is well placed.
No, it's irrational and sign of a mental illness.
> People that
WHO, not that.
> have worked in the restaurant
> business will tell you how unhealthy they are with few exceptions.
Health inspectors would like to know where these violators are located.
> And the workers often lack basic hygiene that handle your food.
Inform health inspectors. That's one of the first things they observe.
> One should be careful where they eat,
ONE should be careful where HE or SHE eats. Make your pronouns agree
with antecedents, dummy.
> and don't be embarrassed to inspect. If the
> bathroom isn't clean, how can the food be?
> If they don't take proper
> care of their garbage, that's a terrible sign.
I'd stay out if they had homeless people or bumbling riff-raff like you
loitering around their premises.
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| Re: Advice needed re. bacon in Vegetarian meal [message #121975 ] |
Thu, 11 August 2005 19:04 |
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Beach Runner wrote:
>> I hate to say that in the UK, and I can't comment on anywhere else as
>> I live
>> in London, it's quite common, unless you eat in a veggie restaurant (and
>> there are some nice ones about), it will happen - they pay lip service to
>> veggie food. I was in a cafe in Greenwich with my parents, I'm veggie,
>> they're Kosher. We ordered the set veggie breakfast, after 10 mins they
>> said sorry there's a delay they got the order wrong, fair enough we said.
>> When the food finally came out, under my dad's veggie sausage was a
>> piece of
>> bacon! They'd obviously (badly) scraped off the wrong order and replaced
>> our food on top, missing the piece of pig. You can't guarantee that they
>> don't cook the same food (i.e. a veggie burger) in the same oil/pan/grill
>> whatever as the meat ones. It's getting better but we have a long way to
>> go, I went to a pub that does a Sunday rosat, and it was amazing, they
>> had 3
>> yes 3 veggie choice for main course, with 7 veg, spuds, yorkshire,
>> stuffing
>> etc., and the amazing thing proper veggie gravy, yum. It was great
>> and we
>> would go there again, but I won't ask them if they use the same pans etc.
>
> Of course, according to Usual Suspects Kosher is a sickness.
I appreciate the laws against eating pork, particularly since they were
given to a wandering group in the desert -- two things which aren't good
for pork production. I've only said that it's orthorexic to the extent
that people follow silly rules which have no basis in the texts: two
sets of pots, endless and baseless rules about what can or can't be
eaten together, and so on. And if the "piece of pig" is objectionable,
why is she even eating food prepared by Gentiles? That, too, is as treif
as the bacon or as a cheeseburger, and some rabbis forbid religious from
eating such food just because it's prepared by non-Jews.
http://tinyurl.com/8dyn5
> He is an anti semite.
I am not. You're a bumbling twit who abuses substances and has a
learning disability.
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| Re: Advice needed re. bacon in Vegetarian meal [message #121998 ] |
Fri, 12 August 2005 13:26 |
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usual suspect wrote:
> Beach Runner wrote:
>
>>> I hate to say that in the UK, and I can't comment on anywhere else as
>>> I live
>>> in London, it's quite common, unless you eat in a veggie restaurant (and
>>> there are some nice ones about), it will happen - they pay lip
>>> service to
>>> veggie food. I was in a cafe in Greenwich with my parents, I'm veggie,
>>> they're Kosher. We ordered the set veggie breakfast, after 10 mins they
>>> said sorry there's a delay they got the order wrong, fair enough we
>>> said.
>>> When the food finally came out, under my dad's veggie sausage was a
>>> piece of
>>> bacon! They'd obviously (badly) scraped off the wrong order and
>>> replaced
>>> our food on top, missing the piece of pig. You can't guarantee that
>>> they
>>> don't cook the same food (i.e. a veggie burger) in the same
>>> oil/pan/grill
>>> whatever as the meat ones. It's getting better but we have a long
>>> way to
>>> go, I went to a pub that does a Sunday rosat, and it was amazing,
>>> they had 3
>>> yes 3 veggie choice for main course, with 7 veg, spuds, yorkshire,
>>> stuffing
>>> etc., and the amazing thing proper veggie gravy, yum. It was great
>>> and we
>>> would go there again, but I won't ask them if they use the same pans
>>> etc.
>>
>>
>> Of course, according to Usual Suspects Kosher is a sickness.
>
>
> I appreciate the laws against eating pork, particularly since they were
> given to a wandering group in the desert -- two things which aren't good
> for pork production. I've only said that it's orthorexic to the extent
> that people follow silly rules which have no basis in the texts: two
> sets of pots, endless and baseless rules about what can or can't be
> eaten together, and so on. And if the "piece of pig" is objectionable,
> why is she even eating food prepared by Gentiles? That, too, is as treif
> as the bacon or as a cheeseburger, and some rabbis forbid religious from
> eating such food just because it's prepared by non-Jews.
>
> http://tinyurl.com/8dyn5
>
>> He is an anti semite.
>
Anyone who says Kosher is an eating disorder is an anti semite.
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| Re: Advice needed re. bacon in Vegetarian meal [message #122000 ] |
Fri, 12 August 2005 13:47 |
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usual suspect wrote:
> Beach Runner wrote:
>
>>> I hate to say that in the UK, and I can't comment on anywhere else as
>>> I live
>>> in London, it's quite common, unless you eat in a veggie restaurant (and
>>> there are some nice ones about), it will happen - they pay lip
>>> service to
>>> veggie food. I was in a cafe in Greenwich with my parents, I'm veggie,
>>> they're Kosher. We ordered the set veggie breakfast, after 10 mins they
>>> said sorry there's a delay they got the order wrong, fair enough we
>>> said.
>>> When the food finally came out, under my dad's veggie sausage was a
>>> piece of
>>> bacon! They'd obviously (badly) scraped off the wrong order and
>>> replaced
>>> our food on top, missing the piece of pig. You can't guarantee that
>>> they
>>> don't cook the same food (i.e. a veggie burger) in the same
>>> oil/pan/grill
>>> whatever as the meat ones. It's getting better but we have a long
>>> way to
>>> go, I went to a pub that does a Sunday rosat, and it was amazing,
>>> they had 3
>>> yes 3 veggie choice for main course, with 7 veg, spuds, yorkshire,
>>> stuffing
>>> etc., and the amazing thing proper veggie gravy, yum. It was great
>>> and we
>>> would go there again, but I won't ask them if they use the same pans
>>> etc.
>>>
>>>
>>> "LittleMissTerious" <lisa.schollar [at] ntlworld.com> wrote in message
>>> news:1123608716.671742.218460 [at] o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
>>>
>>>> Hi
>>>>
>>>> Hoping somebody has some advice on how is best to proceed...
>>>>
>>>> I was absolutely mortified after finding a piece of bacon in my
>>>> peas/carrots whilst out for a Yate's "vegetarian roast" on sunday. I
>>>> have been veggie for 17 years (the proper non-fish eating, non-gelatine
>>>> eating type!!!!) so as you can imagine I'm feeling pretty sick to the
>>>> stomach - thank God I didn't eat it, tho the thought of having eaten
>>>> vegetables that had been in contact with it - well, I won't dwell on
>>>> that one, I'm sure you get the idea.
>>>>
>>>> The manager was pleasant and sympathetic, gave us a refund and said I
>>>> should contact head office and "take it as far as I'd like". Have to
>>>> say I feel like suing the ars*s off em, but this is the UK, so probably
>>>> not likely to happen. He thinks it was a cross-contamination - probably
>>>> fell off a bacon something or another on a higher shelf, tho frankly I
>>>> don't think that is acceptable!
>>>>
>>>> Anybody have any ideas who I should call - they obviously need some
>>>> sort of inspection & to look at their kitchen design.
>>>>
>>>> Any advice would be gratefully received.
If you read the newspapers there are health reports daily. Call them.
>>>>
>>>> Lisa
>>>> x
>>
>>
>> That demonstrates that Kosher laws were scientifically correct,
>
>
It shows how mixing implements can lead to danger.
> No, it doesn't. Non sequitur. I can't believe how stupid you are.
>
>> that food mixing in preparation was a real concern.
>
>
> It was NOT a concern. People have long mixed foods and ingredients. It
> has NO bearing on health so long as the ingredients aren't contaminated.
>
If you cut dead flesh and then use the same knife on veggies, you cross
contaminate the food.
Now we even outlaw butcher blocks because they retain bacteria.
>> Now we see the same problem with vegetarian contamination.
>
>
> It's not a problem. She got a refund. They'll try to figure out what
> happened and insure it doesn't happen again.
>
No, she had a problem. Her meal was ruined. And it demonstrated that
food preparers tried to cover up their mistakes.
>> And of course, it is well known that cross food contamination is
>> common at most restaurants.
>
>
> She didn't get PHYSICALLY ill, numb nuts. She's having a MENTAL
> breakdown because of an irrational fear that somehow she's no longer as
> "pure" as she was beforehand because some of the food passing down her
> throat merely came into contact with something she finds offensive. She
> is orthorexic.
And a vegan for many reasons. That doesn't mean she's orthorexic. She
doesn't want contaminated food that's been obviously tampered with.
>
>> They use the same knife or board to cut the dead flesh as chop veggies
>> resulting in diseases like E Coli.
>
>
> E coli isn't spread by contact with flesh, but rather through fecal
> contamination.
Which is common in uncooked flesh from factory farms, along with other
bacteria.
E coli can contaminate produce which NEVER comes into
> contact with meat. That was the case when Odwalla juices sickened small
> children because their hippie parents thought "unpasteurized organic"
> foods and juices were somehow superior to anything else.
>
Hippie parents? What a prejudiced person, not just anti semetic.
Organic foods contain less pesticides, and this comes from consumer
reports. But you know better. You'd probably trust the guy in the food
industry first before Consume Reports. He never heard of conflict of
interest?.
I live in Florida. If you can't taste the difference between fresh
squeezed juice and Tropica something ELSE is wrong with you.
>> Your concern is well placed.
>
>
> No, it's irrational and sign of a mental illness.
>
No, she chooses not to eat meat, ordered a meatless meal, and got one
anyway, even though her servers tried to fool her. If they'll do that
they'll pick up food from the floor, they've shown they can't be
trusted. They've shown they can't be trusted.
You are not the one to make judgments on other's.
>> People that
>
>
> WHO, not that.
>
>> have worked in the restaurant business will tell you how unhealthy
>> they are with few exceptions.
>
>
> Health inspectors would like to know where these violators are located.
>
They do all the time. Read the reports, rarely does an establishment
come out clean.
>> And the workers often lack basic hygiene that handle your food.
>
>
> Inform health inspectors. That's one of the first things they observe.
>
Yes, read the reports, but trust your own eyes first.
>> One should be careful where they eat,
>
>
> ONE should be careful where HE or SHE eats. Make your pronouns agree
> with antecedents, dummy.
>
>> and don't be embarrassed to inspect. If the bathroom isn't clean, how
>> can the food be?
>> If they don't take proper care of their garbage, that's a terrible sign.
>
>
> I'd stay out if they had homeless people or bumbling riff-raff like you
> loitering around their premises.
I'll ignore that stupid remark. I gave practical advice, given to me by
someone who taught food preparation. And is obvious.
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| Re: Advice needed re. bacon in Vegetarian meal [message #123417 ] |
Fri, 12 August 2005 15:46 |
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Excuse me, but whom the hell are you to say I'm having a MENTAL
BREAKDOWN?? How DARE you criticise and judge my mental health! Having
never met or spoken to me, I do not think you are in any way in a
position to make such an irrational assumption, not that anybody asked
for your opinion. I doubt that you are qualified or even well educated
enough to do so in any case.
Incidentally, where exactly did I say I thought I was not "pure"?? If
you are going to quote me, at least get your facts straight. I am
certainly not Orthorexic. I am not obsessed with my food or my diet at
all, I have no desire to be "pure", I have a very healthy appetite, and
enjoy a large variety of foods, I just happen to dislike meat and would
no longer eat it on ethical grounds...not that it is any business of
yours.
I find it more than a little pathetic that you clearly have nothing
better to do with your time than trawl through websites/groups looking
for somebody you can pick an argument with. Your input was neither of
any use or interest to me, so you merely wasted your own time typing it
and now I have to waste my time and energy replying to such drivel that
it barely deserves a response.
And feel free to correct as many grammatical errors as you like,
frankly I don't give a sh*t. Though, whilst we are on the subject,
("They'll try to figure out what
happened and insure it doesn't happen again.") ensure is spelt with an
'E', not an 'I', you moron.
Oh, and the word faecal has two a's in it, not one.
And technically, seeing as you are being so pedantic, the 'E' in "E.
coli" is an abbreviation of Escherichia; hence it should be punctuated
accordingly.
Now go find some messages to which you can give a constructive response
or keep your narrow-minded opinions to yourself.
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| Re: Advice needed re. bacon in Vegetarian meal [message #123428 ] |
Fri, 12 August 2005 19:15 |
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Bumbling Bob wrote:
>>>> I hate to say that in the UK, and I can't comment on anywhere else
>>>> as I live
>>>> in London, it's quite common, unless you eat in a veggie restaurant
>>>> (and
>>>> there are some nice ones about), it will happen - they pay lip
>>>> service to
>>>> veggie food. I was in a cafe in Greenwich with my parents, I'm veggie,
>>>> they're Kosher. We ordered the set veggie breakfast, after 10 mins
>>>> they
>>>> said sorry there's a delay they got the order wrong, fair enough we
>>>> said.
>>>> When the food finally came out, under my dad's veggie sausage was a
>>>> piece of
>>>> bacon! They'd obviously (badly) scraped off the wrong order and
>>>> replaced
>>>> our food on top, missing the piece of pig. You can't guarantee that
>>>> they
>>>> don't cook the same food (i.e. a veggie burger) in the same
>>>> oil/pan/grill
>>>> whatever as the meat ones. It's getting better but we have a long
>>>> way to
>>>> go, I went to a pub that does a Sunday rosat, and it was amazing,
>>>> they had 3
>>>> yes 3 veggie choice for main course, with 7 veg, spuds, yorkshire,
>>>> stuffing
>>>> etc., and the amazing thing proper veggie gravy, yum. It was great
>>>> and we
>>>> would go there again, but I won't ask them if they use the same pans
>>>> etc.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Of course, according to Usual Suspects Kosher is a sickness.
>>
>>
>>
>> I appreciate the laws against eating pork, particularly since they
>> were given to a wandering group in the desert -- two things which
>> aren't good for pork production. I've only said that it's orthorexic
>> to the extent that people follow silly rules which have no basis in
>> the texts: two sets of pots, endless and baseless rules about what can
>> or can't be eaten together, and so on. And if the "piece of pig" is
>> objectionable, why is she even eating food prepared by Gentiles? That,
>> too, is as treif as the bacon or as a cheeseburger, and some rabbis
>> forbid religious from eating such food just because it's prepared by
>> non-Jews.
>>
>> http://tinyurl.com/8dyn5
>>
>>> He is an anti semite.
>
> Anyone who says Kosher is an eating disorder
It is. Get over it. Most Jews have.
Reform Judaism and Reconstructionist Judaism hold that these laws are no
longer binding. Most Jews in Reform Judaism have considered these laws a
hindrance, rather than a facilitator, of piety; this is still the
mainstream Reform position. Some parts of the Reform community have
begun to move towards a more traditional position. This
tradition-leaning faction agrees with mainstream Reform that the rules
concerning kashrut are no longer binding, but holds that keeping kosher
is an important way for people to bring holiness into their lives. Thus
Jews are encouraged to consider adopting some or all of the rules of
kashrut on a voluntary basis. The Reconstructionist movement advocates
that its members accept some of the rules of kashrut, but does so in a
non-binding fashion; their stance on kashrut is the same as the
tradition-leaning wing of Reform. The different movements' positions on
kashrut are reflective of their broader perspectives on Jewish law as a
whole.
Many Jews who do not meet the complete requirements of Kashrut
nevertheless maintain some subset of the laws; for instance, abstaining
from pork or shellfish. Many Jews will likewise avoid drinking milk with
a meat dish, without knowing why doing so seems alien. Similarly, many
keep a degree of Kashrut at home while having no problems eating in a
non-kosher restaurant.
http://www.answers.com/topic/kashrut
|
|
|
| Re: Advice needed re. bacon in Vegetarian meal [message #123431 ] |
Fri, 12 August 2005 19:46 |
|
Bumbling Bob wrote:
>>>> I hate to say that in the UK, and I can't comment on anywhere else
>>>> as I live
>>>> in London, it's quite common, unless you eat in a veggie restaurant
>>>> (and
>>>> there are some nice ones about), it will happen - they pay lip
>>>> service to
>>>> veggie food. I was in a cafe in Greenwich with my parents, I'm veggie,
>>>> they're Kosher. We ordered the set veggie breakfast, after 10 mins
>>>> they
>>>> said sorry there's a delay they got the order wrong, fair enough we
>>>> said.
>>>> When the food finally came out, under my dad's veggie sausage was a
>>>> piece of
>>>> bacon! They'd obviously (badly) scraped off the wrong order and
>>>> replaced
>>>> our food on top, missing the piece of pig. You can't guarantee that
>>>> they
>>>> don't cook the same food (i.e. a veggie burger) in the same
>>>> oil/pan/grill
>>>> whatever as the meat ones. It's getting better but we have a long
>>>> way to
>>>> go, I went to a pub that does a Sunday rosat, and it was amazing,
>>>> they had 3
>>>> yes 3 veggie choice for main course, with 7 veg, spuds, yorkshire,
>>>> stuffing
>>>> etc., and the amazing thing proper veggie gravy, yum. It was great
>>>> and we
>>>> would go there again, but I won't ask them if they use the same pans
>>>> etc.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "LittleMissTerious" <lisa.schollar [at] ntlworld.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:1123608716.671742.218460 [at] o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
>>>>
>>>>> Hi
>>>>>
>>>>> Hoping somebody has some advice on how is best to proceed...
>>>>>
>>>>> I was absolutely mortified after finding a piece of bacon in my
>>>>> peas/carrots whilst out for a Yate's "vegetarian roast" on sunday. I
>>>>> have been veggie for 17 years (the proper non-fish eating,
>>>>> non-gelatine
>>>>> eating type!!!!) so as you can imagine I'm feeling pretty sick to the
>>>>> stomach - thank God I didn't eat it, tho the thought of having eaten
>>>>> vegetables that had been in contact with it - well, I won't dwell on
>>>>> that one, I'm sure you get the idea.
>>>>>
>>>>> The manager was pleasant and sympathetic, gave us a refund and said I
>>>>> should contact head office and "take it as far as I'd like". Have to
>>>>> say I feel like suing the ars*s off em, but this is the UK, so
>>>>> probably
>>>>> not likely to happen. He thinks it was a cross-contamination -
>>>>> probably
>>>>> fell off a bacon something or another on a higher shelf, tho frankly I
>>>>> don't think that is acceptable!
>>>>>
>>>>> Anybody have any ideas who I should call - they obviously need some
>>>>> sort of inspection & to look at their kitchen design.
>>>>>
>>>>> Any advice would be gratefully received.
>
> If you read the newspapers there are health reports daily. Call them.
Like the paper would care that a vegan had a tizzy because someone put
bacon in something. That's not health news. Her health was unaffected by
the bacon.
>>>>> Lisa
>>>>> x
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> That demonstrates that Kosher laws were scientifically correct,
>
> It shows how mixing implements can lead to danger.
There was NO danger, Boob. There was no food poisoning. This Lisa's
response was psychosomatic. Heavy emphasis on the psycho part.
>> No, it doesn't. Non sequitur. I can't believe how stupid you are.
I still can't. You're unbelievably stupid.
>>> that food mixing in preparation was a real concern.
>>
>> It was NOT a concern. People have long mixed foods and ingredients. It
>> has NO bearing on health so long as the ingredients aren't contaminated.
>>
> If you cut dead flesh and then use the same knife on veggies, you cross
> contaminate the food.
>
> Now we even outlaw butcher blocks because they retain bacteria.
Irrelevant. Lisa's complaint was PSYCHOsomatic, not due to bacterial
contamination.
>>> Now we see the same problem with vegetarian contamination.
>>
>> It's not a problem. She got a refund. They'll try to figure out what
>> happened and insure it doesn't happen again.
>
> No, she had a problem.
A psychological one.
> Her meal was ruined.
Because of her hyper-fragile psyche. The restaurant was to blame for
fucking up her order. She's to blame for blowing it all out of proportion.
> And it demonstrated that
> food preparers tried to cover up their mistakes.
Cover up how? The manager apologized and refunded her money.
>>> And of course, it is well known that cross food contamination is
>>> common at most restaurants.
>>
>> She didn't get PHYSICALLY ill, numb nuts. She's having a MENTAL
>> breakdown because of an irrational fear that somehow she's no longer
>> as "pure" as she was beforehand because some of the food passing down
>> her throat merely came into contact with something she finds
>> offensive. She is orthorexic.
>
> And a vegan for many reasons.
Many dumb reasons. She's too hysterical to accept apologies or the
attempt of the manager to make amends by refunding her money.
> That doesn't mean she's orthorexic.
Yes, it does.
> She
> doesn't want contaminated food that's been obviously tampered with.
Her food was neither contaminated or tampered with.
>>> They use the same knife or board to cut the dead flesh as chop
>>> veggies resulting in diseases like E Coli.
>>
>> E coli isn't spread by contact with flesh, but rather through fecal
>> contamination.
>
> Which is common in uncooked flesh from factory farms,
Wrong. E coli contamination requires fecal contact in some fashion. That
can include from organic fruit or vegetables grown with manure.
> along with other bacteria.
>
>> E coli can contaminate produce which NEVER comes into
>> contact with meat. That was the case when Odwalla juices sickened
>> small children because their hippie parents thought "unpasteurized
>> organic" foods and juices were somehow superior to anything else.
>>
> Hippie parents?
Yes, HIPPIE parents. HIPPIES who assume that because something is
organic and not pasteurized it must therefore be healthy for their young
children. Well guess what? It isn't.
> What a prejudiced person,
I'm prejudiced against people who'd give their children unpasteurized
juices.
> not just anti semetic.
I am not anti-semitic.
> Organic foods contain less pesticides, and this comes from consumer
> reports.
I've read reviews and know that organic does not mean "free of
pesticides" or even "less pesticides." Organic is a sham. Gullible
people pay more for stuff grown with the very same chemicals, just in
natural form rather than synthetic. The organic lobby -- and they do
have their own "conflicts of interest" since that's how you describe it
-- has been effective in their efforts to keep their products on an
unlevel playing field.
Organic pesticides are as toxic as their synthetic counterparts, and
many of them are banned under the Rotterdam Convention:
The Convention has already been signed by 73 countries –
including Brazil – and ratified by 18. It will come into effect
once there are 50 signatory countries.The original products list
included 22 organic pesticides considered to be *highly toxic*...
http://www.nex.org.br/english/ denucias_envenenamento.htm
[Highly toxic meaning those organic pesticides affect non-target
species, including humans.]
An organic pesticide called Dichlorodiphenyl trichloroethane is banned
because of its pervasive toxicity. You probably have heard of it by its
initials: DDT.
http://www.epa.gov/history/pub lications/formative6.htm
[DDT was linked to the death of bald eagles, a non-target species.]
Organic pesticides kill fish:
While some organic pesticides may be nontoxic or are only
slightly toxic to people, they may be very toxic to other
animals. For instance, *the organic pesticide ryania is very
toxic to fish*.
http://hgic.clemson.edu/factsh eets/HGIC2756.htm
[Fish are a non-target species.]
Organic pesticides kill a variety of *non-target species*, and foods
grown organically are not labeled "pesticide free":
Organic pesticides are used widely. Some are toxic. Rotenone
*kills fish*. Copper sulphate *kills many creatures*. In California,
an organic pesticide, sulphur, represents one-third of all
pesticide use. For obvious reasons, organic farmers don’t call
their produce "pesticide free."
http://www.ontariocorn.org/ocp mag/pestruth.html
See also:
http://www.hudson.org/index.cf m?fuseaction=publication_detai ls&id=1677
Copper sulphate is more harmful to a variety of species than its
conventional counterpart:
Leake candidly criticized organic farmers for using nasty but
"natural" pesticides. "The use of copper and sulphur fungicide
sprays seems inconsistent with the claim that organic
agriculture is pesticide-free. On examination, the
*eco-toxicology of copper sulphate is undoubtedly more harmful
and persistent than its conventional counterpart, Mancozeb*."
Leake even provided a handy table, showing that the copper
sulphate used by organic farmers is *toxic to humans, very toxic
to earthworms and fish, moderately toxic to birds and harmful to
small mammals*.
http://www.cgfi.org/materials/ articles/2000/sep_8_00.htm
Effects of copper sulphate -- an organic pesticide/fungicide -- on a
variety of species including humans:
There have been reports of *human suicide* resulting from the
ingestion of gram quantities of this material.... Copper sulfate
is very toxic to fish.... Copper sulfate is *toxic to aquatic
invertebrates, such as crab, shrimp and oysters*. Based on data
on the potential hazards posed by this material to the
*slackwater darter, freshwater mussels, and Solano grass*, and in
an effort to *minimize exposure of endangered species* to this
material, applicators in some counties are required to consult
EPA endangered species bulletins before applying copper sulfate.
http://tinyurl.com/5y4hm
Organic pesticides ARE toxins:
Organic pesticide - not an oxymoron, because many organic
farmers use pesticides. A pesticide is any compound that kills
pests. So Rotenone is considered an organic pesticide even
though it does a fantastic job of killing pests and has
questionable safety. Rotenone is derived from the roots of
various South American legumes. It is a nerve poison that
paralyzes insects. Other organic pesticides include copper
compounds that can be *tough on other organisms and the
environment*. Pyrethrins are pesticides derived from the
pyrethrum daisies. They are a nerve poison that is effective on
a wide range of insects. *Pyrethrins are moderately toxic to
mammals* and *highly toxic to fish*. It is *illegal to apply them
around ponds or waterways*. So even though it says "organic", it
can still *pack a nasty punch*.
http://www.springledgefarm.com /glossary.htm
.....
Leake candidly criticized *organic farmers* for using nasty but
"natural" pesticides. "The use of copper and sulphur fungicide
sprays seems inconsistent with the claim that organic
agriculture is pesticide-free. On examination, the
*eco-toxicology of copper sulphate is undoubtedly more harmful
and persistent than its conventional counterpart, Mancozeb*."
Leake even provided a handy table, showing that the copper
sulphate *used by organic farmers* is *toxic to humans, very toxic
to earthworms and fish, moderately toxic to birds and harmful to
small mammals*.
> But you know better.
I know better than you do.
> You'd probably trust the guy in the food
> industry first
Would that be the ORGANIC food industry and their lobbyists or the
OVERALL food industry and their lobbyists?
> before Consume Reports.
Consumer Reports is not the end-all and be-all of truth.
> He never heard of conflict of
> interest?.
Have you, and why do you not consider organic industry propaganda to be
just as self-serving as any other? Answer: Because you're a benighted
zealot who puts his small-minded agenda ahead of the truth.
> I live in Florida.
I know, and when will you accept responsibility for moving to an
overpopulated area and causing all kinds of localized ecological damage?
When will you go back where you came from so my native Gulf Coast region
can heal itself?
> If you can't taste the difference between fresh
> squeezed juice and Tropica something ELSE is wrong with you.
I make all my own juices, dumb ass.
>>> Your concern is well placed.
>>
>> No, it's irrational and sign of a mental illness.
>>
> No, she chooses not to eat meat, ordered a meatless meal, and got one
> anyway, even though her servers tried to fool her. If they'll do that
> they'll pick up food from the floor, they've shown they can't be
> trusted. They've shown they can't be trusted.
>
> You are not the one to make judgments on other's.
Others. And yes, I am.
>>> People that
>>
>> WHO, not that.
>>
>>> have worked in the restaurant business will tell you how unhealthy
>>> they are with few exceptions.
>>
>> Health inspectors would like to know where these violators are located.
>
> They do all the time. Read the reports, rarely does an establishment
> come out clean.
They "come out clean" more often than not around here.
http://www.kxan.com/Global/story.asp?S=3713448&nav=0s3cd Fak
>>> And the workers often lack basic hygiene that handle your food.
>>
>> Inform health inspectors. That's one of the first things they observe.
>
> Yes, read the reports, but trust your own eyes first.
I didn't write to read reports, dumb ass. If you observe something you
find objectionable or even questionable, inform health inspectors.
>>> One should be careful where they eat,
>>
>> ONE should be careful where HE or SHE eats. Make your pronouns agree
>> with antecedents, dummy.
>
>>> and don't be embarrassed to inspect. If the bathroom isn't clean, how
>>> can the food be?
>>> If they don't take proper care of their garbage, that's a terrible sign.
>>
>> I'd stay out if they had homeless people or bumbling riff-raff like
>> you loitering around their premises.
>
> I'll ignore that
You shouldn't, shithead. It's apropos. Do you look like a homeless
person or just mutter-ishly write like one?
|
|
|
| Re: Advice needed re. bacon in Vegetarian meal [message #123432 ] |
Fri, 12 August 2005 19:58 |
|
LittleMissTerious wrote:
> Excuse me, but whom the hell are you to say I'm having a MENTAL
> BREAKDOWN??
I am "usual suspect."
> How DARE you criticise and judge my mental health!
I didn't criticize it, I made an informed assessment based on your
psychosomatic complaint arising from a screwed-up food order.
> Having never met or spoken to me,
I read your post. That was sufficient.
"I was absolutely mortified..."
"I'm feeling pretty sick to the stomach..."
Etc.
> I do not think you are in any way in a
> position to make such an irrational assumption,
I didn't assume anything, and my assessment is quite rational.
> not that anybody asked for your opinion.
You started your post by writing, "Hoping somebody has some advice on
how is best to proceed..." Clearly you were in search of opinions. I
refrained at the time I read your post from giving you the following advice:
1. Grow up.
2. Get over it.
3. If you have problems complying with 1 or 2, seek appropriate
psychiatric treatment.
> I doubt that you are qualified or even well educated
> enough to do so in any case.
You're wrong on both counts.
> Incidentally, where exactly did I say I thought I was not "pure"??
From this:
I have been veggie for 17 years (the proper non-fish eating,
non-gelatine eating type!!!!) so as you can imagine I'm feeling
pretty sick to the stomach - thank God I didn't eat it, tho the
thought of having eaten vegetables that had been in contact with
it - well, I won't dwell on that one, I'm sure you get the idea.
Why don't you eat fish or gelatin if you're not into being a "pure" veg-n?
> If you are going to quote me, at least get your facts straight.
I believe I didn't exaggerate your positions. They're melodramatic on
their own.
> I am certainly not Orthorexic.
You are, and you're in denial.
> I am not obsessed with my food or my diet at all,
Then why could you not merely pick out the bacon if the peas and carrots
were acceptable (or even tasty!) otherwise, or just avoid the peas and
carrots? Why could you not accept the manager's apology and prompt,
cheerful refund? Why would you feel the need "[sue] the ars*s off em"
because of a such a small and already remediated error?
> I have no desire to be "pure",
Then why would you define yourself as "the proper non-fish eating,
non-gelatine eating type!!!!"? Why would you "[feel] pretty sick to the
stomach" at "the thought of having eaten vegetables that had been in
contact with" a little bit of bacon?
> I have a very healthy appetite,
You have an eating disorder, which has been defined by Dr Bratman as
orthorexia. Consider his excellent essay at the following link:
http://www.orthorexia.com/index.php?page=essay
<snip rest of your trite self-justification and juvenile lashing out>
|
|
|
| Re: Advice needed re. bacon in Vegetarian meal [message #123435 ] |
Fri, 12 August 2005 20:18 |
|
"the proper non-fish eating, non-gelatine eating type" wrote:
> Hi
>
> Hoping somebody has some advice on how is best to proceed...
1. Grow up.
2. Get over it.
3. If you have problems complying with 1 or 2, seek appropriate
psychiatric treatment.
|
|
|
| Re: Advice needed re. bacon in Vegetarian meal [message #123437 ] |
Fri, 12 August 2005 22:03 |
|
I do not have an eating disorder, trust me. We're not really that big
on them over here in the UK! I am of perfect weight, eat healthy,
nutritious, delicious food - I have no food 'issues', get the odd
chocolate cravings the same as the next girl. I am, by choice, a
vegetarian. It is not a 'disorder'. It is not an illness. Nor is it my
religion (for the record, I am NOT Jewish, so no idea why you keep
harping on about that issue.) It is, however, something you clearly
take offence to.
I have no idea why you have such a problem with people who would prefer
not to consume dead animal carcasses. It is none of your business. If
you disagree with the principle, stay the hell away from the Vegan
forum!! Your opinions are archaic - and I believe it is you who needs
to
"1. Grow up.
2. Get over it.
3. If you have problems complying with 1 or 2, seek appropriate
psychiatric treatment" (though I'm thinking you may already be seeking
help - surely nobody that obnoxious can slip through the net??)
It has been duly noted that you made no reference to the correction of
your own spelling errors, yet you revelled in pointing out those of
others - surely an indication of an inferiority complex if ever I saw
one. For somebody apparently 'educated' you are not doing a very good
impression of being so.
Do us all a favour - don't bother posting any more messages. You
obviously have nothing interesting to say, you certainly didn't offer
any advice that was relevant to my initial question, so suggest you
pick another issue in which you are more qualified, if you must insist
on boring people with your opinions and harassing people. So far you
have branded me as having had a mental breakdown, of suffering
irrational fears, having eating disorders, signs of mental illness,
told me to grow up, and seek psyciatric treatment. And there was me
thinking I was a normal 32 year old. Best I whisk myself off to the
finest clinic money can buy pronto, eh? I think not.
If you were vegetarian, you would understand the issue. As a closed
minded half-wit, you never will.
Take care, enjoy your life and please...stay out of mine.
|
|
|
| Re: Advice needed re. bacon in Vegetarian meal [message #123439 ] |
Fri, 12 August 2005 23:07 |
|
"LittleMissTerious" <lisa.schollar [at] ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:1123854411.778228.74680 [at] f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> Excuse me, but whom the hell are you to say I'm having a MENTAL
> BREAKDOWN?? How DARE you criticise and judge my mental health!
> Having
> never met or spoken to me, I do not think you are in any way in
> a
> position to make such an irrational assumption, not that
> anybody asked
> for your opinion. I doubt that you are qualified or even well
> educated
> enough to do so in any case.
>
> Incidentally, where exactly did I say I thought I was not
> "pure"?? If
> you are going to quote me, at least get your facts straight. I
> am
> certainly not Orthorexic. I am not obsessed with my food or my
> diet at
> all, I have no desire to be "pure", I have a very healthy
> appetite, and
> enjoy a large variety of foods, I just happen to dislike meat
> and would
> no longer eat it on ethical grounds.
==========================
So, how is it ethical to kill animals and leave them to rot, but
unethical to kill them and eat them? Are you just another of a
long line of hypocrites here on usenet displaying your ignorance?
...not that it is any business of
> yours.
====================
You're posting your inane, irrational ignorance on a public
forum, it becaomes everyones business that cares to respond.
>
> I find it more than a little pathetic that you clearly have
> nothing
> better to do with your time than trawl through websites/groups
> looking
> for somebody you can pick an argument with. Your input was
> neither of
> any use or interest to me, so you merely wasted your own time
> typing it
> and now I have to waste my time and energy replying to such
> drivel that
> it barely deserves a response.
====================
LOL so you spend all that time with this spew, eh hypocrite?
>
> And feel free to correct as many grammatical errors as you
> like,
> frankly I don't give a sh*t. Though, whilst we are on the
> subject,
> ("They'll try to figure out what
> happened and insure it doesn't happen again.") ensure is spelt
> with an
> 'E', not an 'I', you moron.
>
> Oh, and the word faecal has two a's in it, not one.
>
> And technically, seeing as you are being so pedantic, the 'E'
> in "E.
> coli" is an abbreviation of Escherichia; hence it should be
> punctuated
> accordingly.
>
> Now go find some messages to which you can give a constructive
> response
> or keep your narrow-minded opinions to yourself.
==============
Veganism IS narrowmindedness, killer.
>
|
|
|
| Re: Advice needed re. bacon in Vegetarian meal [message #123440 ] |
Fri, 12 August 2005 23:10 |
|
"LittleMissTerious" <lisa.schollar [at] ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:1123877033.840290.239350 [at] g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>I do not have an eating disorder, trust me. We're not really
>that big
> on them over here in the UK! I am of perfect weight, eat
> healthy,
> nutritious, delicious food - I have no food 'issues', get the
> odd
> chocolate cravings the same as the next girl. I am, by choice,
> a
> vegetarian. It is not a 'disorder'. It is not an illness. Nor
> is it my
> religion (for the record, I am NOT Jewish, so no idea why you
> keep
> harping on about that issue.) It is, however, something you
> clearly
> take offence to.
>
> I have no idea why you have such a problem with people who
> would prefer
> not to consume dead animal carcasses.
===========================
Oh but you do 'consume' animals. Just becasue you don't eat them
doesn't mean they don't die violent, inhumane deaths. Why does
that not upset you too?
It is none of your business. If
> you disagree with the principle, stay the hell away from the
> Vegan
> forum!! Your opinions are archaic - and I believe it is you who
> needs
> to
> "1. Grow up.
> 2. Get over it.
> 3. If you have problems complying with 1 or 2, seek appropriate
> psychiatric treatment" (though I'm thinking you may already be
> seeking
> help - surely nobody that obnoxious can slip through the net??)
==================
I suggest you learn what your diet really means to animals and
the environment, killer.
>
> It has been duly noted that you made no reference to the
> correction of
> your own spelling errors, yet you revelled in pointing out
> those of
> others - surely an indication of an inferiority complex if ever
> I saw
> one. For somebody apparently 'educated' you are not doing a
> very good
> impression of being so.
>
> Do us all a favour - don't bother posting any more messages.
> You
> obviously have nothing interesting to say, you certainly didn't
> offer
> any advice that was relevant to my initial question, so suggest
> you
> pick another issue in which you are more qualified, if you must
> insist
> on boring people with your opinions and harassing people. So
> far you
> have branded me as having had a mental breakdown, of suffering
> irrational fears, having eating disorders, signs of mental
> illness,
> told me to grow up, and seek psyciatric treatment. And there
> was me
> thinking I was a normal 32 year old. Best I whisk myself off to
> the
> finest clinic money can buy pronto, eh? I think not.
>
> If you were vegetarian, you would understand the issue. As a
> closed
> minded half-wit, you never will.
>
> Take care, enjoy your life and please...stay out of mine.
>
|
|
|
| Re: Advice needed re. bacon in Vegetarian meal [message #123442 ] |
Fri, 12 August 2005 23:17 |
|
LittleMissTerious wrote:
> I do not have an eating disorder,
Yes, you do. You said you were "mortified," had a psychosomatic
complaint, and wanted to sue someone over a very minor food order screw-up.
> trust me.
I don't trust hyper-emotive ninnies like you.
> We're not really that big
> on them over here in the UK!
Then why are there tens of thousands of links about them in the UK?
http://tinyurl.com/a8p25
> I am of perfect weight,
That's not the issue, dummy. Did you read Dr Bratman's essay or go
through his clear and informative website?
> eat healthy,
No, you do not. You objected to minute traces of an animal ingredient
which you hadn't tasted or even suspected might be in your food until
you found one tiny piece of it.
> nutritious, delicious food -
Admit you were relishing the peas and carrots before you noticed the
tiny piece of bacon.
> I have no food 'issues',
The hell you don't. 'Normal' people don't get "mortified" over such
minor issues. If they see something they don't like or want, the remove
it and that's that. You didn't. You told us of your psychosomatic
complaint and your inability to think of what you *MIGHT* have eaten --
worse, that you ate stuff that TOUCHED the tiny piece of bacon. You have
some very serious issues.
> get the odd
> chocolate cravings the same as the next girl. I am, by choice, a
> vegetarian.
You're by the same choice an emotive nitwit.
> It is not a 'disorder'. It is not an illness. Nor is it my
> religion
Then why do you get so worked up and zealous about a TINY piece of bacon?
> (for the record, I am NOT Jewish, so no idea why you keep
> harping on about that issue.)
I don't harp on it. Bumbling Bob, aka Beach Runner, does.
> It is, however, something you clearly
> take offence to.
No, I'm AMUSED by it.
> I have no idea why you have such a problem with people who would prefer
> not to consume dead animal carcasses.
It wasn't a "dead animal carcass." It was an inocuous little piece of
cured pork belly, also called "bacon."
> It is none of your business.
You made it mine when you brought it to a PUBLIC forum and asked for
OPINIONS.
> If you disagree with the principle, stay the hell away from the Vegan
> forum!!
No. It's a public newsgroup and I'm on-topic.
> Your opinions are archaic -
No, they're equally contemporary, relevant, realistic, and perceptive.
> It has been duly noted that you made no reference to the correction of
> your own spelling errors,
American spelling conventions differ from archaic, pardon me, Anglican
conventions. For instance, we leave out the archaic a in fecal,
gynecology, etc. Similarly, it is accepted usage on to leave periods out
of certain abbreviations where the last letter of the original is
retained; you should be familiar with such usage, e.g., Mr for Mister
and Dr for Doctor. I admit the E in E coli doesn't fall under the same
rule as those given since the last letter isn't included, but it's a
personal typing quirk (I have Word set up to correct that when I type,
but Word doesn't work for newsgroup browsing or posting). Too bad if
that "mortifies" you as much as finding a TINY piece of bacon. Ditz.
> Do us all a favour - don't bother posting any more messages.
Why are you so afraid of others' opinions, particularly when they're
relevant and so compelling?
> You obviously have nothing interesting to say,
You only want back-patting opinions that agree with your own.
> you certainly didn't offer
> any advice that was relevant to my initial question,
Not that you wanted to hear.
> If you were vegetarian, you would understand the issue.
I am, and I do. Like I said, grow up and get over it. It didn't kill
you. What WILL kill you is your emotive attitude, inability to cope in
the real world, and a misplaced wrath over a trivial issue.
> Take care, enjoy your life and please...stay out of mine.
You're stuck with me, sunshine. :-)
|
|
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| Re: Advice needed re. bacon in Vegetarian meal [message #123450 ] |
Sat, 13 August 2005 08:00 |
|
LMT, Usual is an asshole, plain
and simple. He likes to be mean.
"usual suspect" <support [at] our.troops> wrote in message
news:4m8Le.138716$0f.36446 [at] tornado.texas.rr.com...
> LittleMissTerious wrote:
> > I do not have an eating disorder,
>
> Yes, you do. You said you were "mortified," had a psychosomatic
> complaint, and wanted to sue someone over a very minor food order
screw-up.
>
> > trust me.
>
> I don't trust hyper-emotive ninnies like you.
Usual likes to insult. He really
really really likes it. He feels
that if he puts someone else
down, that somehow raises
him above their level.
> > We're not really that big
> > on them over here in the UK!
>
> Then why are there tens of thousands of links about them in the UK?
> http://tinyurl.com/a8p25
>
> > I am of perfect weight,
>
> That's not the issue, dummy. Did you read Dr Bratman's essay or go
> through his clear and informative website?
Orthorexia is a made up word and
not recognized by the mental health
profession.
> > eat healthy,
>
> No, you do not. You objected to minute traces of an animal ingredient
> which you hadn't tasted or even suspected might be in your food until
> you found one tiny piece of it.
>
> > nutritious, delicious food -
>
> Admit you were relishing the peas and carrots before you noticed the
> tiny piece of bacon.
>
> > I have no food 'issues',
>
> The hell you don't. 'Normal' people don't get "mortified" over such
> minor issues. If they see something they don't like or want, the remove
> it and that's that. You didn't. You told us of your psychosomatic
> complaint and your inability to think of what you *MIGHT* have eaten --
> worse, that you ate stuff that TOUCHED the tiny piece of bacon. You have
> some very serious issues.
>
> > get the odd
> > chocolate cravings the same as the next girl. I am, by choice, a
> > vegetarian.
>
> You're by the same choice an emotive nitwit.
>
> > It is not a 'disorder'. It is not an illness. Nor is it my
> > religion
>
> Then why do you get so worked up and zealous about a TINY piece of bacon?
>
> > (for the record, I am NOT Jewish, so no idea why you keep
> > harping on about that issue.)
>
> I don't harp on it. Bumbling Bob, aka Beach Runner, does.
>
> > It is, however, something you clearly
> > take offence to.
>
> No, I'm AMUSED by it.
Usual gets a lot of amusement from
insulting others. There's probably
a name for that in the psychiatric
books.
> > I have no idea why you have such a problem with people who would prefer
> > not to consume dead animal carcasses.
>
> It wasn't a "dead animal carcass." It was an inocuous little piece of
> cured pork belly, also called "bacon."
Does Usual think this bacon came
from a LIVE animal carcass. Give
me a break! :)
> > It is none of your business.
>
> You made it mine when you brought it to a PUBLIC forum and asked for
> OPINIONS.
>
> > If you disagree with the principle, stay the hell away from the Vegan
> > forum!!
>
> No. It's a public newsgroup and I'm on-topic.
Usual is a troll.
> > Your opinions are archaic -
>
> No, they're equally contemporary, relevant, realistic, and perceptive.
>
> > It has been duly noted that you made no reference to the correction of
> > your own spelling errors,
>
> American spelling conventions differ from archaic, pardon me, Anglican
> conventions. For instance, we leave out the archaic a in fecal,
> gynecology, etc. Similarly, it is accepted usage on to leave periods out
> of certain abbreviations where the last letter of the original is
> retained; you should be familiar with such usage, e.g., Mr for Mister
> and Dr for Doctor. I admit the E in E coli doesn't fall under the same
> rule as those given since the last letter isn't included, but it's a
> personal typing quirk (I have Word set up to correct that when I type,
> but Word doesn't work for newsgroup browsing or posting). Too bad if
> that "mortifies" you as much as finding a TINY piece of bacon. Ditz.
Mr. and Dr. have periods after them.
Usual doesn't know anything about
the proper format for the names of
organisms and plants like the dot
after the E.
> > Do us all a favour - don't bother posting any more messages.
>
> Why are you so afraid of others' opinions, particularly when they're
> relevant and so compelling?
Usual want's to say it's fear when
it's just a fact that his posts are
obnoxious to others. His bragging
of relevance and being compelling
show just the opposite.
> > You obviously have nothing interesting to say,
>
> You only want back-patting opinions that agree with your own.
>
> > you certainly didn't offer
> > any advice that was relevant to my initial question,
>
> Not that you wanted to hear.
>
> > If you were vegetarian, you would understand the issue.
>
> I am, and I do. Like I said, grow up and get over it. It didn't kill
> you. What WILL kill you is your emotive attitude, inability to cope in
> the real world, and a misplaced wrath over a trivial issue.
Usual used to call himself vegan and
since turning into a vegan (self) hater,
has made a big production over
leaving veganism. He ate some
fish and made a huge issue of it in
it's own topic. I'm pretty sure he's
gone back to the food definition
of being vegan and hates himself
for it.
--
SN
http://www.scentednectar.com/veg/
> > Take care, enjoy your life and please...stay out of mine.
>
> You're stuck with me, sunshine. :-)
|
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| Re: Advice needed re. bacon in Vegetarian meal [message #123463 ] |
Sat, 13 August 2005 14:41 |
|
Harsh words, my dear. You think I believe it is ok to kill animals and
leave them to rot - but not to kill them and eat them?? Not quite sure
where you got that idea from. Think you're using just a little bit too
much poetic license whilst reading between the lines! And btw - I did
not at any time claim to be a vegan - I am not a vegan, just so we get
that one clear. But I'm sure that all the nice, genuine people here on
the VEGAN forum (did you get lost, sweetie??) will no doubt appreciate
you calling them narrow-minded. They seem far from it, if you ask me.
Oh, and I'm a killer?? Thats so lovely, thank you - my parents will be
so proud of me! And what do you want to be when you grow up??
|
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| Re: Advice needed re. bacon in Vegetarian meal [message #123465 ] |
Sat, 13 August 2005 16:11 |
|
"LittleMissTerious" <lisa.schollar [at] ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:1123936879.030930.101730 [at] g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Harsh words, my dear.
==================
No, true words, fool.
You think I believe it is ok to kill animals and
> leave them to rot - but not to kill them and eat them?? Not
> quite sure
> where you got that idea from.
==========================
Because it's true. You have no trouble eating, it's just when
some minute piece of meat shows up you go bonkers. Before that,
any animal that died for you veggies was fair game. They die by
the millions upon millions to supply you with your so-called
meat-free diet. They die in far more horrible, inhumane ways
than meat animals do, and are left to rot. All for the
conveninece of your salad.
Think you're using just a little bit too
> much poetic license whilst reading between the lines! And btw -
> I did
> not at any time claim to be a vegan - I am not a vegan,
===================
Talk the talk, duckie...
just so we get
> that one clear. But I'm sure that all the nice, genuine people
> here on
> the VEGAN forum (did you get lost, sweetie??) will no doubt
> appreciate
> you calling them narrow-minded. They seem far from it, if you
> ask me.
=================
Nope, they are the most closed-minded group I know. Religion
does that to you. btw, there are no real vegans here on
usenet...
>
> Oh, and I'm a killer?? Thats so lovely, thank you - my parents
> will be
> so proud of me! And what do you want to be when you grow up??
===================
Yes. you are. and you prove that you don't mind contributing to
the killing of animals unnecessarily with each of your inane
posts. You are one sick little girl...
>
|
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| Re: Advice needed re. bacon in Vegetarian meal [message #123479 ] |
Sat, 13 August 2005 21:39 |
|
usual suspect wrote:
> Bumbling Bob wrote:
>
>>>>> I hate to say that in the UK, and I can't comment on anywhere else
>>>>> as I live
>>>>> in London, it's quite common, unless you eat in a veggie restaurant
>>>>> (and
>>>>> there are some nice ones about), it will happen - they pay lip
>>>>> service to
>>>>> veggie food. I was in a cafe in Greenwich with my parents, I'm
>>>>> veggie,
>>>>> they're Kosher. We ordered the set veggie breakfast, after 10 mins
>>>>> they
>>>>> said sorry there's a delay they got the order wrong, fair enough we
>>>>> said.
>>>>> When the food finally came out, under my dad's veggie sausage was a
>>>>> piece of
>>>>> bacon! They'd obviously (badly) scraped off the wrong order and
>>>>> replaced
>>>>> our food on top, missing the piece of pig. You can't guarantee
>>>>> that they
>>>>> don't cook the same food (i.e. a veggie burger) in the same
>>>>> oil/pan/grill
>>>>> whatever as the meat ones. It's getting better but we have a long
>>>>> way to
>>>>> go, I went to a pub that does a Sunday rosat, and it was amazing,
>>>>> they had 3
>>>>> yes 3 veggie choice for main course, with 7 veg, spuds, yorkshire,
>>>>> stuffing
>>>>> etc., and the amazing thing proper veggie gravy, yum. It was great
>>>>> and we
>>>>> would go there again, but I won't ask them if they use the same
>>>>> pans etc.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "LittleMissTerious" <lisa.schollar [at] ntlworld.com> wrote in message
>>>>> news:1123608716.671742.218460 [at] o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hoping somebody has some advice on how is best to proceed...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I was absolutely mortified after finding a piece of bacon in my
>>>>>> peas/carrots whilst out for a Yate's "vegetarian roast" on sunday. I
>>>>>> have been veggie for 17 years (the proper non-fish eating,
>>>>>> non-gelatine
>>>>>> eating type!!!!) so as you can imagine I'm feeling pretty sick to the
>>>>>> stomach - thank God I didn't eat it, tho the thought of having eaten
>>>>>> vegetables that had been in contact with it - well, I won't dwell on
>>>>>> that one, I'm sure you get the idea.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The manager was pleasant and sympathetic, gave us a refund and said I
>>>>>> should contact head office and "take it as far as I'd like". Have to
>>>>>> say I feel like suing the ars*s off em, but this is the UK, so
>>>>>> probably
>>>>>> not likely to happen. He thinks it was a cross-contamination -
>>>>>> probably
>>>>>> fell off a bacon something or another on a higher shelf, tho
>>>>>> frankly I
>>>>>> don't think that is acceptable!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Anybody have any ideas who I should call - they obviously need some
>>>>>> sort of inspection & to look at their kitchen design.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Any advice would be gratefully received.
>>
>>
>> If you read the newspapers there are health reports daily. Call them.
>
>
> Like the paper would care that a vegan had a tizzy because someone put
> bacon in something. That's not health news. Her health was unaffected by
> the bacon.
>
>>>>>> Lisa
>>>>>> x
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> That demonstrates that Kosher laws were scientifically correct,
>>
>>
>> It shows how mixing implements can lead to danger.
>
>
> There was NO danger, Boob. There was no food poisoning. This Lisa's
> response was psychosomatic. Heavy emphasis on the psycho part.
>
>>> No, it doesn't. Non sequitur. I can't believe how stupid you are.
>
>
> I still can't. You're unbelievably stupid.
>
>>>> that food mixing in preparation was a real concern.
>>>
>>>
>>> It was NOT a concern. People have long mixed foods and ingredients.
>>> It has NO bearing on health so long as the ingredients aren't
>>> contaminated.
>>>
>> If you cut dead flesh and then use the same knife on veggies, you
>> cross contaminate the food.
>>
>> Now we even outlaw butcher blocks because they retain bacteria.
>
>
> Irrelevant. Lisa's complaint was PSYCHOsomatic, not due to bacterial
> contamination.
>
>>>> Now we see the same problem with vegetarian contamination.
>>>
>>>
>>> It's not a problem. She got a refund. They'll try to figure out what
>>> happened and insure it doesn't happen again.
>>
>>
>> No, she had a problem.
>
>
> A psychological one.
>
>> Her meal was ruined.
>
>
> Because of her hyper-fragile psyche. The restaurant was to blame for
> fucking up her order. She's to blame for blowing it all out of proportion.
>
>> And it demonstrated that food preparers tried to cover up their mistakes.
>
>
> Cover up how? The manager apologized and refunded her money.
>
>>>> And of course, it is well known that cross food contamination is
>>>> common at most restaurants.
>>>
>>>
>>> She didn't get PHYSICALLY ill, numb nuts. She's having a MENTAL
>>> breakdown because of an irrational fear that somehow she's no longer
>>> as "pure" as she was beforehand because some of the food passing down
>>> her throat merely came into contact with something she finds
>>> offensive. She is orthorexic.
>>
>>
>> And a vegan for many reasons.
>
>
> Many dumb reasons. She's too hysterical to accept apologies or the
> attempt of the manager to make amends by refunding her money.
>
>> That doesn't mean she's orthorexic.
>
>
> Yes, it does.
>
>> She doesn't want contaminated food that's been obviously tampered with.
>
>
> Her food was neither contaminated or tampered with.
>
>>>> They use the same knife or board to cut the dead flesh as chop
>>>> veggies resulting in diseases like E Coli.
>>>
>>>
>>> E coli isn't spread by contact with flesh, but rather through fecal
>>> contamination.
>>
>>
>> Which is common in uncooked flesh from factory farms,
>
>
> Wrong. E coli contamination requires fecal contact in some fashion. That
> can include from organic fruit or vegetables grown with manure.
>
>> along with other bacteria.
>>
>>> E coli can contaminate produce which NEVER comes into
>>> contact with meat. That was the case when Odwalla juices sickened
>>> small children because their hippie parents thought "unpasteurized
>>> organic" foods and juices were somehow superior to anything else.
>>>
>> Hippie parents?
>
>
> Yes, HIPPIE parents. HIPPIES who assume that because something is
> organic and not pasteurized it must therefore be healthy for their young
> children. Well guess what? It isn't.
>
>> What a prejudiced person,
>
>
> I'm prejudiced against people who'd give their children unpasteurized
> juices.
>
>> not just anti semetic.
>
>
> I am not anti-semitic.
>
>> Organic foods contain less pesticides, and this comes from consumer
>> reports.
>
>
> I've read reviews and know that organic does not mean "free of
> pesticides" or even "less pesticides." Organic is a sham. Gullible
> people pay more for stuff grown with the very same chemicals, just in
> natural form rather than synthetic. The organic lobby -- and they do
> have their own "conflicts of interest" since that's how you describe it
> -- has been effective in their efforts to keep their products on an
> unlevel playing field.
>
>
> Organic pesticides are as toxic as their synthetic counterparts, and
> many of them are banned under the Rotterdam Convention:
> The Convention has already been signed by 73 countries –
> including Brazil – and ratified by 18. It will come into effect
> once there are 50 signatory countries.The original products list
> included 22 organic pesticides considered to be *highly toxic*...
> http://www.nex.org.br/english/ denucias_envenenamento.htm
>
> [Highly toxic meaning those organic pesticides affect non-target
> species, including humans.]
>
> An organic pesticide called Dichlorodiphenyl trichloroethane is banned
> because of its pervasive toxicity. You probably have heard of it by its
> initials: DDT.
> http://www.epa.gov/history/pub lications/formative6.htm
>
> [DDT was linked to the death of bald eagles, a non-target species.]
>
> Organic pesticides kill fish:
> While some organic pesticides may be nontoxic or are only
> slightly toxic to people, they may be very toxic to other
> animals. For instance, *the organic pesticide ryania is very
> toxic to fish*.
> http://hgic.clemson.edu/factsh eets/HGIC2756.htm
>
> [Fish are a non-target species.]
>
> Organic pesticides kill a variety of *non-target species*, and foods
> grown organically are not labeled "pesticide free":
> Organic pesticides are used widely. Some are toxic. Rotenone
> *kills fish*. Copper sulphate *kills many creatures*. In California,
> an organic pesticide, sulphur, represents one-third of all
> pesticide use. For obvious reasons, organic farmers don’t call
> their produce "pesticide free."
> http://www.ontariocorn.org/ocp mag/pestruth.html
> See also:
> http://www.hudson.org/index.cf m?fuseaction=publication_detai ls&id=1677
>
> Copper sulphate is more harmful to a variety of species than its
> conventional counterpart:
> Leake candidly criticized organic farmers for using nasty but
> "natural" pesticides. "The use of copper and sulphur fungicide
> sprays seems inconsistent with the claim that organic
> agriculture is pesticide-free. On examination, the
> *eco-toxicology of copper sulphate is undoubtedly more harmful
> and persistent than its conventional counterpart, Mancozeb*."
>
> Leake even provided a handy table, showing that the copper
> sulphate used by organic farmers is *toxic to humans, very toxic
> to earthworms and fish, moderately toxic to birds and harmful to
> small mammals*.
> http://www.cgfi.org/materials/ articles/2000/sep_8_00.htm
>
> Effects of copper sulphate -- an organic pesticide/fungicide -- on a
> variety of species including humans:
> There have been reports of *human suicide* resulting from the
> ingestion of gram quantities of this material.... Copper sulfate
> is very toxic to fish.... Copper sulfate is *toxic to aquatic
> invertebrates, such as crab, shrimp and oysters*. Based on data
> on the potential hazards posed by this material to the
> *slackwater darter, freshwater mussels, and Solano grass*, and in
> an effort to *minimize exposure of endangered species* to this
> material, applicators in some counties are required to consult
> EPA endangered species bulletins before applying copper sulfate.
> http://tinyurl.com/5y4hm
>
> Organic pesticides ARE toxins:
> Organic pesticide - not an oxymoron, because many organic
> farmers use pesticides. A pesticide is any compound that kills
> pests. So Rotenone is considered an organic pesticide even
> though it does a fantastic job of killing pests and has
> questionable safety. Rotenone is derived from the roots of
> various South American legumes. It is a nerve poison that
> paralyzes insects. Other organic pesticides include copper
> compounds that can be *tough on other organisms and the
> environment*. Pyrethrins are pesticides derived from the
> pyrethrum daisies. They are a nerve poison that is effective on
> a wide range of insects. *Pyrethrins are moderately toxic to
> mammals* and *highly toxic to fish*. It is *illegal to apply them
> around ponds or waterways*. So even though it says "organic", it
> can still *pack a nasty punch*.
> http://www.springledgefarm.com /glossary.htm
>
> ....
> Leake candidly criticized *organic farmers* for using nasty but
> "natural" pesticides. "The use of copper and sulphur fungicide
> sprays seems inconsistent with the claim that organic
> agriculture is pesticide-free. On examination, the
> *eco-toxicology of copper sulphate is undoubtedly more harmful
> and persistent than its conventional counterpart, Mancozeb*."
>
> Leake even provided a handy table, showing that the copper
> sulphate *used by organic farmers* is *toxic to humans, very toxic
> to earthworms and fish, moderately toxic to birds and harmful to
> small mammals*.
>
>> But you know better.
>
>
> I know better than you do.
>
>> You'd probably trust the guy in the food industry first
>
>
> Would that be the ORGANIC food industry and their lobbyists or the
> OVERALL food industry and their lobbyists?
>
>> before Consume Reports.
>
>
> Consumer Reports is not the end-all and be-all of truth.
>
>> He never heard of conflict of interest?.
>
>
> Have you, and why do you not consider organic industry propaganda to be
> just as self-serving as any other? Answer: Because you're a benighted
> zealot who puts his small-minded agenda ahead of the truth.
>
>> I live in Florida.
>
>
> I know, and when will you accept responsibility for moving to an
> overpopulated area and causing all kinds of localized ecological damage?
> When will you go back where you came from so my native Gulf Coast region
> can heal itself?
>
>> If you can't taste the difference between fresh squeezed juice and
>> Tropica something ELSE is wrong with you.
>
>
> I make all my own juices, dumb ass.
>
>>>> Your concern is well placed.
>>>
>>>
>>> No, it's irrational and sign of a mental illness.
>>>
>> No, she chooses not to eat meat, ordered a meatless meal, and got one
>> anyway, even though her servers tried to fool her. If they'll do that
>> they'll pick up food from the floor, they've shown they can't be
>> trusted. They've shown they can't be trusted.
>>
>> You are not the one to make judgments on other's.
>
>
> Others. And yes, I am.
>
>>>> People that
>>>
>>>
>>> WHO, not that.
>>>
>>>> have worked in the restaurant business will tell you how unhealthy
>>>> they are with few exceptions.
>>>
>>>
>>> Health inspectors would like to know where these violators are located.
>>
>>
>> They do all the time. Read the reports, rarely does an establishment
>> come out clean.
>
>
> They "come out clean" more often than not around here.
> http://www.kxan.com/Global/story.asp?S=3713448&nav=0s3cd Fak
>
>>>> And the workers often lack basic hygiene that handle your food.
>>>
>>>
>>> Inform health inspectors. That's one of the first things they observe.
>>
>>
>> Yes, read the reports, but trust your own eyes first.
>
>
> I didn't write to read reports, dumb ass. If you observe something you
> find objectionable or even questionable, inform health inspectors.
>
>>>> One should be careful where they eat,
>>>
>>>
>>> ONE should be careful where HE or SHE eats. Make your pronouns agree
>>> with antecedents, dummy.
>>
>>
>>>> and don't be embarrassed to inspect. If the bathroom isn't clean,
>>>> how can the food be?
>>>> If they don't take proper care of their garbage, that's a terrible
>>>> sign.
>>>
>>>
>>> I'd stay out if they had homeless people or bumbling riff-raff like
>>> you loitering around their premises.
>>
>>
>> I'll ignore that
>
>
> You shouldn't, shithead. It's apropos. Do you look like a homeless
> person or just mutter-ishly write like one?
Clearly the food establishment made a mistake. They tried to cover up
the mistake. I would never return there. As you said, there were signs
they altered the foods. They were being dishonest. I wouldn't trust
that restaurant. Many restaurants feed people that fell on the floor, and
send something back to the kitchen and you are at their mercy. People
in the industry will tell you that.
Thank you for your kind words US. I'm not homeless. I am a well
published writer. If I have some typos that's too bad.
>>> And of course, it is well known that cross food contamination is
common at most restaurants.
>>
>>
>>> She didn't get PHYSICALLY ill, numb nuts. She's having a MENTAL
?breakdown because of an irrational fear that somehow she's no longer as
>"pure" as she was beforehand because some of the food passing down her
>throat merely came into contact with something she finds offensive.
She >is orthorexic.
>>
>>
>> And a vegan for many reasons.
>Many dumb reasons. She's too hysterical to accept apologies or the
>attempt of the manager to make amends by refunding her money.
People choose VEGAN for a variety of reasons. It is not an illness.
Yes, it could be used to cover one, but by itself there are many people
who choose VEGAN for various reasons. It is their right.
She is not orthorexic. She is vegan. Is she wasting away by purging
herself?
A refund of money for being treated dishonestly? You consider that a
valid apology? It's like offering to pay for something after you're
caught stealing it.
She is doing a good thing and you try and turn it around.
Make amends for a lie? There was no excuse.
As for being a vegan it is a choice and if a food establishment says
they can honor the request, they should be honest. They were not.
What else do they lie about when they are not caught?
A
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| Re: Advice needed re. bacon in Vegetarian meal [message #123481 ] |
Sat, 13 August 2005 22:57 |
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Skanky wrote:
> LMT, Usual is an asshole, plain
> and simple. He likes to be mean.
Translation for non-orthorexics: "Usual calls them like he sees them and
doesn't care if orthorexics' feelings get hurt."
>>>I do not have an eating disorder,
>>
>>Yes, you do. You said you were "mortified," had a psychosomatic
>>complaint, and wanted to sue someone over a very minor food order
>>screw-up.
>
>>>trust me.
>>
>>I don't trust hyper-emotive ninnies like you.
>
> Usual likes to insult.
That wasn't an insult. Lisa's order was screwed up -- on that I think we
all agree. Her overreaction to the situation, though, is the area where
we disagree. She was "mortified" and felt physically ill even though she
will admit that she enjoyed the peas and carrots up until the point when
she realized there was a tiny piece of bacon. It's good enough for most
"normal" people to either pick out the bacon or to stop eating. She went
further: she got a cheerful and prompt apology, and the manager even
recommended she pursue the matter fully. Again, most "normal" people
would leave it at that. Instead, she comes to usenet and publicly asks
for ideas because she says she wants to sue the company even though she
realizes it won't go far in her nation.
I didn't insult her. She IS a ninny. She's an orthorexic ninny who has
an irrational reaction to others' mistakes.
>>>We're not really that big
>>>on them over here in the UK!
>>
>>Then why are there tens of thousands of links about them in the UK?
>>http://tinyurl.com/a8p25
>>
>>>I am of perfect weight,
>>
>>That's not the issue, dummy. Did you read Dr Bratman's essay or go
>>through his clear and informative website?
>
> Orthorexia is a made up word
It's a legitimate word with a legitimate meaning, unlike the phony,
made-up words you throw around (e.g., "veganics" and "meatarian").
> and not recognized by the mental health
> profession.
Just because it's not yet in DSM by name doesn't mean it's not
recognized, dummy. It's already included in DSM-IV as an eating disorder
not otherwise specified (or NOS).
It will eventually be included *by name* in future DSM versions:
http://tinyurl.com/3t4f6
>>>eat healthy,
>>
>>No, you do not. You objected to minute traces of an animal ingredient
>>which you hadn't tasted or even suspected might be in your food until
>>you found one tiny piece of it.
>>
>>
>>>nutritious, delicious food -
>>
>>Admit you were relishing the peas and carrots before you noticed the
>>tiny piece of bacon.
>>
>>
>>>I have no food 'issues',
>>
>>The hell you don't. 'Normal' people don't get "mortified" over such
>>minor issues. If they see something the | |
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