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#1: Ten Ren? Is it good tea?

Posted on 2006-05-01 02:10:58 by bloehard

Any opinions on Ten Ren brand tea from Taiwan? I tried High Mountain
Oolong for something like $35.00 for 300 grams. I really liked it, but
wondered if it was worth it and if anyone had experience with their
teas. It was the medium expensive oolong at the local Asian market.
Very fresh and floral tasting.

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#2: Re: Ten Ren? Is it good tea?

Posted on 2006-05-01 20:53:18 by Alex

I think Ten Ren is ok but kind of the McDonalds of tea. It's neither
especially expensive nor extremely high quality, so you're pretty safe,
but on the other hand it won't blow your socks off.

They have chain stores all over the place - there is one in Chinatown
in NYC.

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#3: Re: Ten Ren? Is it good tea?

Posted on 2006-05-02 14:58:41 by Space Cowboy

I like TenRen loose teas. AFAIK their commercial loose teas aren't for
export. Their export teabags don't compare. I recently paid $7/150g
for bags of Green and TungTing. Another very good commercial brand
from Taiwan is Good Young. Again buy their loose teas and not teabags.
I've never had a bad Pouchong from Taiwan from anybody. So to wrap
it up, I like commercial loose teas from Taiwan.

Jim

bloehard wrote:
> Any opinions on Ten Ren brand tea from Taiwan? I tried High Mountain
> Oolong for something like $35.00 for 300 grams. I really liked it, but
> wondered if it was worth it and if anyone had experience with their
> teas. It was the medium expensive oolong at the local Asian market.
> Very fresh and floral tasting.

Report this message

#4: Re: Ten Ren? Is it good tea?

Posted on 2006-05-02 17:53:09 by kludge

Space Cowboy &lt;<a href="mailto:netstuff&#64;ix.netcom.com" target="_blank">netstuff&#64;ix.netcom.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;I like TenRen loose teas. AFAIK their commercial loose teas aren't for
&gt;export. Their export teabags don't compare. I recently paid $7/150g
&gt;for bags of Green and TungTing. Another very good commercial brand
&gt;from Taiwan is Good Young. Again buy their loose teas and not teabags.
&gt; I've never had a bad Pouchong from Taiwan from anybody. So to wrap
&gt;it up, I like commercial loose teas from Taiwan.

Most of the teabags of theirs I have tried were very stale, even ones
purchased at the Ten Ren stores.

The Ten Ren stores have a wide variety of loose teas, although for the
most part the more expensive ones and the oddities aren't stocked very
conistently. For example, the NYC store has lapsang souchong, which
the Rockville store does not... but Rockville has two grades of the
Oriental Beauty tea while the NYC store has only one.

Ten Ren usually has five or six grades of each variety, but the stores
don't stock all of them. For the most part, they get more fragrant as
you go up in price. The cheap teas are very inexpensive, and the high
end teas are very expensive although many of the stores only stock the
stuff in the middle.

The second-to-lowest grade tung ting is pretty good, and reasonably
priced. I love the oriental beauty teas. The king's tea and the
lapsang are both kind of nasty.

Oh yes, and their osmanthus teas are interesting. As you go up in
price, the teas have less osmanthus and more tea flavour.
--scott

--
&quot;C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis.&quot;

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#5: Re: Ten Ren? Is it good tea?

Posted on 2006-05-03 04:06:38 by howard

If you are looking for high grade of taiwan tea. you should take a look at :
www.jardinduthe.ca , this store offers an excellence taiwan Dong Ding (
tong ting ) oolong tea.


&quot;Scott Dorsey&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:kludge&#64;panix.com" target="_blank">kludge&#64;panix.com</a>&gt; wrote in message
news:e37v95$s9n$<a href="mailto:1&#64;panix2.panix.com..." target="_blank">1&#64;panix2.panix.com...</a>
&gt; Space Cowboy &lt;<a href="mailto:netstuff&#64;ix.netcom.com" target="_blank">netstuff&#64;ix.netcom.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; &gt;I like TenRen loose teas. AFAIK their commercial loose teas aren't for
&gt; &gt;export. Their export teabags don't compare. I recently paid $7/150g
&gt; &gt;for bags of Green and TungTing. Another very good commercial brand
&gt; &gt;from Taiwan is Good Young. Again buy their loose teas and not teabags.
&gt; &gt; I've never had a bad Pouchong from Taiwan from anybody. So to wrap
&gt; &gt;it up, I like commercial loose teas from Taiwan.
&gt;
&gt; Most of the teabags of theirs I have tried were very stale, even ones
&gt; purchased at the Ten Ren stores.
&gt;
&gt; The Ten Ren stores have a wide variety of loose teas, although for the
&gt; most part the more expensive ones and the oddities aren't stocked very
&gt; conistently. For example, the NYC store has lapsang souchong, which
&gt; the Rockville store does not... but Rockville has two grades of the
&gt; Oriental Beauty tea while the NYC store has only one.
&gt;
&gt; Ten Ren usually has five or six grades of each variety, but the stores
&gt; don't stock all of them. For the most part, they get more fragrant as
&gt; you go up in price. The cheap teas are very inexpensive, and the high
&gt; end teas are very expensive although many of the stores only stock the
&gt; stuff in the middle.
&gt;
&gt; The second-to-lowest grade tung ting is pretty good, and reasonably
&gt; priced. I love the oriental beauty teas. The king's tea and the
&gt; lapsang are both kind of nasty.
&gt;
&gt; Oh yes, and their osmanthus teas are interesting. As you go up in
&gt; price, the teas have less osmanthus and more tea flavour.
&gt; --scott
&gt;
&gt; --
&gt; &quot;C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis.&quot;

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#6: Re: Ten Ren? Is it good tea?

Posted on 2006-05-03 09:21:12 by bloehard

On 2 May 2006 11:53:09 -0400, <a href="mailto:kludge&#64;panix.com" target="_blank">kludge&#64;panix.com</a> (Scott Dorsey) wrote:

&gt;Space Cowboy &lt;<a href="mailto:netstuff&#64;ix.netcom.com" target="_blank">netstuff&#64;ix.netcom.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt;I like TenRen loose teas. AFAIK their commercial loose teas aren't for
&gt;&gt;export. Their export teabags don't compare. I recently paid $7/150g
&gt;&gt;for bags of Green and TungTing. Another very good commercial brand
&gt;&gt;from Taiwan is Good Young. Again buy their loose teas and not teabags.
&gt;&gt; I've never had a bad Pouchong from Taiwan from anybody. So to wrap
&gt;&gt;it up, I like commercial loose teas from Taiwan.
&gt;
&gt;Most of the teabags of theirs I have tried were very stale, even ones
&gt;purchased at the Ten Ren stores.
&gt;
&gt;The Ten Ren stores have a wide variety of loose teas, although for the
&gt;most part the more expensive ones and the oddities aren't stocked very
&gt;conistently. For example, the NYC store has lapsang souchong, which
&gt;the Rockville store does not... but Rockville has two grades of the
&gt;Oriental Beauty tea while the NYC store has only one.
&gt;
&gt;Ten Ren usually has five or six grades of each variety, but the stores
&gt;don't stock all of them. For the most part, they get more fragrant as
&gt;you go up in price. The cheap teas are very inexpensive, and the high
&gt;end teas are very expensive although many of the stores only stock the
&gt;stuff in the middle.
&gt;
&gt;The second-to-lowest grade tung ting is pretty good, and reasonably
&gt;priced. I love the oriental beauty teas. The king's tea and the
&gt;lapsang are both kind of nasty.
&gt;
&gt;Oh yes, and their osmanthus teas are interesting. As you go up in
&gt;price, the teas have less osmanthus and more tea flavour.
&gt;--scott


It seemed pretty good, but I have not had alot of oolongs that compare
with it. It was loose and seems to be what the Asians buy around here.
There are just so many behind the counter, and the price goes up from
there. Wondered if I was barking up the right bush.

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#7: Re: Ten Ren? Is it good tea?

Posted on 2006-05-03 14:50:41 by Alex

howard wrote:
&gt; If you are looking for high grade of taiwan tea. you should take a look at :
&gt; www.jardinduthe.ca , this store offers an excellence taiwan Dong Ding (
&gt; tong ting ) oolong tea.

OK I will shop at your store. Thank you for advertising on usenet.

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#8: Re: Ten Ren? Is it good tea?

Posted on 2006-05-03 15:14:31 by Space Cowboy

That's probably their King's tea with the large numerals. Look at the
TenRen site and you'll see the corresponding description with the
number. The reason I haven't bought any is because it is behind the
counter with the TCM medicines and expensive and by definition made up
your mind to buy before asking to see the item. Taiwan is it's own tea
producing region and comparing oolong taste to any other region is
apples and oranges. If somebody mentions floral I immediately think of
Taiwan.

Jim

bloehard wrote:
&gt; On 2 May 2006 11:53:09 -0400, <a href="mailto:kludge&#64;panix.com" target="_blank">kludge&#64;panix.com</a> (Scott Dorsey) wrote:
....
&gt; &gt;Space Cowboy &lt;<a href="mailto:netstuff&#64;ix.netcom.com" target="_blank">netstuff&#64;ix.netcom.com</a>&gt; wrote:
....
&gt; It seemed pretty good, but I have not had alot of oolongs that compare
&gt; with it. It was loose and seems to be what the Asians buy around here.
&gt; There are just so many behind the counter, and the price goes up from
&gt; there. Wondered if I was barking up the right bush.

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#9: Re: Ten Ren? Is it good tea?

Posted on 2006-05-03 15:21:19 by Alex

Space Cowboy wrote:
&gt; Taiwan is it's own tea
&gt; producing region and comparing oolong taste to any other region is
&gt; apples and oranges. If somebody mentions floral I immediately think of
&gt; Taiwan.
&gt;
&gt; Jim

I tend to agree. Taiwanese oolong was a real revelation for me. I
think the mouth-feel of gaoshan oolong is also very distinctive.

Space can you recommend an online retailer with a good selection of
Taiwanese oolongs? Hou De has a lot but they are on vacation (in
Taiwan, the lucky sods) and I want instant gratification.

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#10: Re: Ten Ren? Is it good tea?

Posted on 2006-05-03 16:54:40 by Space Cowboy

I'm lucky to get my Taiwan fix from commercial brands and my local tea
shoppe. I have ordered from the Taiwan seller TEAHOMEUS on Ebay for
the stuff I can't find locally. Since you know something use Google
and search the .TW domain that sell through mail order. I would but
I'm language dyslexic. Again apples and oranges I've never found a
YunWu from the mainland that compares to a GaoShan from Taiwan.

Jim

PS Since I'm pimping there is a new seller on Ebay named lDLLU who
goes by the name of Gordon with a shop in Shanghai called Dragon Tea
House. His English is very good. I've received one order of Puer
which the other sellers don't carry.


Alex wrote:
&gt; Space Cowboy wrote:
&gt; &gt; Taiwan is it's own tea
&gt; &gt; producing region and comparing oolong taste to any other region is
&gt; &gt; apples and oranges. If somebody mentions floral I immediately think of
&gt; &gt; Taiwan.
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; Jim
&gt;
&gt; I tend to agree. Taiwanese oolong was a real revelation for me. I
&gt; think the mouth-feel of gaoshan oolong is also very distinctive.
&gt;
&gt; Space can you recommend an online retailer with a good selection of
&gt; Taiwanese oolongs? Hou De has a lot but they are on vacation (in
&gt; Taiwan, the lucky sods) and I want instant gratification.

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#11: Re: Ten Ren? Is it good tea?

Posted on 2006-05-04 15:45:39 by ah2323

Had the white tea once. I wasn't aware it was actually a chain of tea
shops. Thanks for alerting me to this; there happens to be one about a
half mile from my house, as it turns out. I bought Ten Ren brand white
tea from an asian market about a year ago and wasn't impressed, but
then I haven't been extremely impressed by any of the white tea i've
tried so far.

Last night I stopped at Ten Ren on the way home and bought some
powdered green tea (a lot like Japanese matcha, it seems) and two
ounces of Pu erh. So far, I like them both a lot. I hope I haven't
acquired a new expensive habit.

I noticed that the shop also sold Uncle Lee teas. Is Uncle Lee a
subsidiary? I drink their Legends of China teas as an everyday brew.

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#12: Re: Ten Ren? Is it good tea?

Posted on 2006-05-10 17:51:32 by Mydnight

&gt;Any opinions on Ten Ren brand tea from Taiwan? I tried High Mountain
&gt;Oolong for something like $35.00 for 300 grams. I really liked it, but
&gt;wondered if it was worth it and if anyone had experience with their
&gt;teas. It was the medium expensive oolong at the local Asian market.
&gt;Very fresh and floral tasting.

The TenFu (what it is called on Mainland China) shops here are
absolutely terrible. They sell rubbish for highly marked up prices.

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#13: Re: Ten Ren? Is it good tea?

Posted on 2006-05-10 19:59:39 by Alex

Mydnight wrote:
&gt; The TenFu (what it is called on Mainland China) shops here are
&gt; absolutely terrible. They sell rubbish for highly marked up prices.

Is TenFu the same thing as Ten Ren? I always assumed it was just
shameless Mainland Chinese intellectual property thievery. And btw I
agree, it does suck.

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#14: Re: Ten Ren? Is it good tea?

Posted on 2006-05-10 21:42:42 by toci

I've just had their more inexpensive teabags. As teabags go, they're
okay. Toci
bloehard wrote:
&gt; Any opinions on Ten Ren brand tea from Taiwan? I tried High Mountain
&gt; Oolong for something like $35.00 for 300 grams. I really liked it, but
&gt; wondered if it was worth it and if anyone had experience with their
&gt; teas. It was the medium expensive oolong at the local Asian market.
&gt; Very fresh and floral tasting.

Report this message

#15: Re: Ten Ren? Is it good tea?

Posted on 2006-05-11 07:34:52 by Mydnight

&gt;Is TenFu the same thing as Ten Ren? I always assumed it was just
&gt;shameless Mainland Chinese intellectual property thievery. And btw I
&gt;agree, it does suck.

TenFu/Ren is of Taiwanese origin. On the mainland and in Taiwan (I
think in Taiwan too), the shop is called TenFu, while in foreign
countries, it's called Ten Ren. Why the name change? I have no idea.
Bottom line is that the tea is expensive and poor quality comparatively
speaking to other shops and getting the teas direct from markets.

Report this message

#16: Re: Ten Ren? Is it good tea?

Posted on 2006-05-11 07:53:28 by Mydnight

&gt;I tend to agree. Taiwanese oolong was a real revelation for me. I
&gt;think the mouth-feel of gaoshan oolong is also very distinctive.

I'm also with you guys on this one. The overall quality of the Taiwan
teas that I've tried have been so superior to the mainland wulongs,
that it's hard to compare. I got some of this great A Li Shan now that
a rich friend gave me, goes for about 100 bucks in Taiwan for a little
more than 300g, that would simply make you weep with joy when you drink
it. I compare this to a sample of &quot;top grade&quot; Tie Guan Yin that
someone gave me from Tenfu, and it simply makes me laugh. The tenfu
stuff goes for like 2000 or more yuan (or like 250 bucks) and it tastes
like it should be more like 10 or 15 bucks.

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#17: Re: Ten Ren? Is it good tea?

Posted on 2006-05-11 11:59:21 by Michael Plant

<a href="mailto:Alex1147283978.963903.57170&#64;j73g2000cwa.googlegroups.com5" target="_blank">Alex1147283978.963903.57170&#64;j73g2000cwa.googlegroups.com5</a>/10/06
13:<a href="mailto:59alex.woods&#64;gmail.com" target="_blank">59alex.woods&#64;gmail.com</a>

&gt;
&gt; Mydnight wrote:
&gt;&gt; The TenFu (what it is called on Mainland China) shops here are
&gt;&gt; absolutely terrible. They sell rubbish for highly marked up prices.
&gt;
&gt; Is TenFu the same thing as Ten Ren? I always assumed it was just
&gt; shameless Mainland Chinese intellectual property thievery. And btw I
&gt; agree, it does suck.
&gt;


I dislike Ten Ren shops in NYC because the staff
speaks little English, tries to sell higher priced tea
than what you are interested in regardless of what tea
you are interested in (a sort of bait and switch). The
used car salesman mentality abounds. Nonetheless,
you will find some green teas of reasonably good
quality near or at the counters, and some reasonably
good quality Oolongs in tinned vacuum sealed bags.
Having said that, I still recommend buying teas
elsewhere where everybody knows your name.

I did think Ten Ren and Ten Fu were two companies.
I *thouoght* I saw TenFu products here as well as
Ten Ren's, but I could be wrong and probably am.

Michael

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#18: Re: Ten Ren? Is it good tea?

Posted on 2006-05-11 12:11:48 by Michael Plant

<a href="mailto:Mydnight1147325692.587883.288910&#64;i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com5" target="_blank">Mydnight1147325692.587883.288910&#64;i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com5</a>/11/06
01:<a href="mailto:34myseri&#64;hotmail.com" target="_blank">34myseri&#64;hotmail.com</a>

&gt;&gt; Is TenFu the same thing as Ten Ren? I always assumed it was just
&gt;&gt; shameless Mainland Chinese intellectual property thievery. And btw I
&gt;&gt; agree, it does suck.
&gt;
&gt; TenFu/Ren is of Taiwanese origin. On the mainland and in Taiwan (I
&gt; think in Taiwan too), the shop is called TenFu, while in foreign
&gt; countries, it's called Ten Ren. Why the name change? I have no idea.
&gt; Bottom line is that the tea is expensive and poor quality comparatively
&gt; speaking to other shops and getting the teas direct from markets.
&gt;

I am *not* a Ten Ren apologist. I don't like their shops.
In fairness, they own plantations. Getting tea from your
own plantation trumps getting tea from the market, at
least in theory.
Michael

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#19: Re: Ten Ren? Is it good tea?

Posted on 2006-05-11 15:50:03 by bamboo

Look, a lot of people start their pu-erh adventure with cheap mini
tuos.
Ten Ren has them and some passable 100gm tuos in their lineup.
It becomes a great inexpensive starting point to get a beginner past
teabags. I am drinking one of their 100 gm gift cakes , I cant vouch
for their teabags because the samples they sent I gave to a friend.
There is a whole lot of far better tea out there but you still have to
have a starting point.

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#20: Re: Ten Ren? Is it good tea?

Posted on 2006-05-11 16:31:35 by Rick Chappell

<a href="mailto:bamboo&#64;localnet.com" target="_blank">bamboo&#64;localnet.com</a> wrote:
&gt; Look, a lot of people start their pu-erh adventure with cheap mini
&gt; tuos.
&gt; Ten Ren has them and some passable 100gm tuos in their lineup.

That's true. I also like their top-grade dung-ding oolongs.
But I do not like their business practices: an overly clever
manager in their Chinatown SF store tried to sell me year-old white tea;
I had to point out to the manager of their Chicago store that they
were selling the above-mentioned minituos at 50% over their website's
price (he claimed it was the cost of shipping from SF), and these
oolongs are very dear.

Rick.

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#21: Re: Ten Ren? Is it good tea?

Posted on 2006-05-11 17:56:04 by ah2323

I'm sure I'm not the first to note that Ten Ren is the Starbucks of
tea. Just as Starbucks makes &quot;good&quot; coffee available to ordinary people
with the money to spend, so Ten Ren introduces people to at least the
*concept* of good tea in many varieties. Neither is quite good enough
to satisfy serious coffee/tea drinkers (coffee/tea snobs, some might
say).


Rick Chappell wrote:
&gt; <a href="mailto:bamboo&#64;localnet.com" target="_blank">bamboo&#64;localnet.com</a> wrote:
&gt; &gt; Look, a lot of people start their pu-erh adventure with cheap mini
&gt; &gt; tuos.
&gt; &gt; Ten Ren has them and some passable 100gm tuos in their lineup.
&gt;
&gt; That's true. I also like their top-grade dung-ding oolongs.
&gt; But I do not like their business practices: an overly clever
&gt; manager in their Chinatown SF store tried to sell me year-old white tea;
&gt; I had to point out to the manager of their Chicago store that they
&gt; were selling the above-mentioned minituos at 50% over their website's
&gt; price (he claimed it was the cost of shipping from SF), and these
&gt; oolongs are very dear.
&gt;
&gt; Rick.

Report this message

#22: Re: Ten Ren? Is it good tea?

Posted on 2006-05-12 12:00:53 by Michael Plant

[Michael's response]
Not quite the same as Starbucks perhaps. Since Ten Ren undoubtedly knows
what it's doing, what Rick describes are *dishonest* business practices. I'm
not sure that Starbucks engages in blatant dishonesty, although one can
never be quite sure. Dishonesty is enough to keep me away. Besides, whatever
Ten Ren sells can be gotten elsewhere for lower prices. Ten Ren's bins,
constantly opened and closed as they are, at least here in NYC, can only
harm the teas. Let us pass them by.

[poster's response]
&gt; I'm sure I'm not the first to note that Ten Ren is the Starbucks of
&gt; tea. Just as Starbucks makes &quot;good&quot; coffee available to ordinary people
&gt; with the money to spend, so Ten Ren introduces people to at least the
&gt; *concept* of good tea in many varieties. Neither is quite good enough
&gt; to satisfy serious coffee/tea drinkers (coffee/tea snobs, some might
&gt; say).

[Rick on Ten Ren]
&gt;&gt; I also like their top-grade dung-ding oolongs.
&gt;&gt; But I do not like their business practices: an overly clever
&gt;&gt; manager in their Chinatown SF store tried to sell me year-old white tea;
&gt;&gt; I had to point out to the manager of their Chicago store that they
&gt;&gt; were selling the above-mentioned minituos at 50% over their website's
&gt;&gt; price (he claimed it was the cost of shipping from SF), and these
&gt;&gt; oolongs are very dear.

Report this message

#23: Re: Ten Ren? Is it good tea?

Posted on 2006-05-12 16:07:13 by ah2323

I have no particular interest in defending Ten Ren, although I enjoyed
my one visit there. But what Rick describes is *one instance* of
dishonest business practices. True, if it happened to me, it might be
enough to keep me away in the future. I got food poisoning at
Applebee's in 1993, and not only would I rather starve than eat there,
I curse them whenever I see one of their advertisements, LOL. But
still, such an instance is not enough to condemn the whole enterprise
everywhere and forever.

There is also more opportunity for dishonesty, since most Americans
basically know bad coffee, but are not particularly savvy about tea.
Not that this justifies such practices in any way, shape, or form.



Michael Plant wrote:
&gt; [Michael's response]
&gt; Not quite the same as Starbucks perhaps. Since Ten Ren undoubtedly knows
&gt; what it's doing, what Rick describes are *dishonest* business practices. I'm
&gt; not sure that Starbucks engages in blatant dishonesty, although one can
&gt; never be quite sure. Dishonesty is enough to keep me away. Besides, whatever
&gt; Ten Ren sells can be gotten elsewhere for lower prices. Ten Ren's bins,
&gt; constantly opened and closed as they are, at least here in NYC, can only
&gt; harm the teas. Let us pass them by.
&gt;
&gt; [poster's response]
&gt; &gt; I'm sure I'm not the first to note that Ten Ren is the Starbucks of
&gt; &gt; tea. Just as Starbucks makes &quot;good&quot; coffee available to ordinary people
&gt; &gt; with the money to spend, so Ten Ren introduces people to at least the
&gt; &gt; *concept* of good tea in many varieties. Neither is quite good enough
&gt; &gt; to satisfy serious coffee/tea drinkers (coffee/tea snobs, some might
&gt; &gt; say).
&gt;
&gt; [Rick on Ten Ren]
&gt; &gt;&gt; I also like their top-grade dung-ding oolongs.
&gt; &gt;&gt; But I do not like their business practices: an overly clever
&gt; &gt;&gt; manager in their Chinatown SF store tried to sell me year-old white tea;
&gt; &gt;&gt; I had to point out to the manager of their Chicago store that they
&gt; &gt;&gt; were selling the above-mentioned minituos at 50% over their website's
&gt; &gt;&gt; price (he claimed it was the cost of shipping from SF), and these
&gt; &gt;&gt; oolongs are very dear.

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#24: Re: Ten Ren? Is it good tea?

Posted on 2006-05-12 17:08:25 by Mydnight

&gt;I have no particular interest in defending Ten Ren, although I enjoyed
&gt;my one visit there. But what Rick describes is *one instance* of
&gt;dishonest business practices. True, if it happened to me, it might be
&gt;enough to keep me away in the future. I got food poisoning at
&gt;Applebee's in 1993, and not only would I rather starve than eat there,
&gt;I curse them whenever I see one of their advertisements, LOL. But
&gt;still, such an instance is not enough to condemn the whole enterprise
&gt;everywhere and forever.

It happened to me in Toronto and in NY. If I didn't speak some
Chinese, I wouldn't have been able to communicate with the little girls
in either shop. On top of that, the girls had little to none knowledge
on anything related to tea; I guessed they were relatives of the
manager or something.

In my mind, and this may be harsh, any sane person should stay away
from Ten Ren unless they are buying the dirt cheap tea that TenRen's
peddling. Granted, even that is probably being sold at a high price.

And yes,

&gt;There is also more opportunity for dishonesty, since most Americans
&gt;basically know bad coffee, but are not particularly savvy about tea.
&gt;Not that this justifies such practices in any way, shape, or form.

This is how the Chinese do business with foreigners.

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#25: Re: Ten Ren? Is it good tea?

Posted on 2006-05-12 17:16:47 by Lewis Perin

&quot;ah2323&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:ahecht2323&#64;hotmail.com" target="_blank">ahecht2323&#64;hotmail.com</a>&gt; writes:

&gt; [...]
&gt;
&gt; There is also more opportunity for dishonesty, since most Americans
&gt; basically know bad coffee, but are not particularly savvy about tea.

If most Americans basically know bad coffee, they must love it. That
probably explains why vendors are so eager to satisfy the demand.

/Lew
---
Lew Perin / <a href="mailto:perin&#64;acm.org" target="_blank">perin&#64;acm.org</a>
<a href="http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html" target="_blank">http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html</a>

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#26: Re: Ten Ren? Is it good tea?

Posted on 2006-05-12 18:05:09 by Michael Plant

<a href="mailto:ah23231147442833.300404.277660&#64;u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com5" target="_blank">ah23231147442833.300404.277660&#64;u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com5</a>/12/06
10:<a href="mailto:07ahecht2323&#64;hotmail.com" target="_blank">07ahecht2323&#64;hotmail.com</a>

&gt; I have no particular interest in defending Ten Ren, although I enjoyed
&gt; my one visit there. But what Rick describes is *one instance* of
&gt; dishonest business practices. True, if it happened to me, it might be
&gt; enough to keep me away in the future. I got food poisoning at
&gt; Applebee's in 1993, and not only would I rather starve than eat there,
&gt; I curse them whenever I see one of their advertisements, LOL. But
&gt; still, such an instance is not enough to condemn the whole enterprise
&gt; everywhere and forever.
&gt;
&gt; There is also more opportunity for dishonesty, since most Americans
&gt; basically know bad coffee, but are not particularly savvy about tea.
&gt; Not that this justifies such practices in any way, shape, or form.

I'm afraid it's SOP with them. Hardly a one instance thing,
sorry to have to say.
Michael

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#27: Re: Ten Ren? Is it good tea?

Posted on 2006-05-12 18:11:12 by Michael Plant

Lewis <a href="mailto:Perinpc7d5ejxogw.fsf&#64;panix1.panix.com5" target="_blank">Perinpc7d5ejxogw.fsf&#64;panix1.panix.com5</a>/12/06 11:<a href="mailto:16perin&#64;panix.com" target="_blank">16perin&#64;panix.com</a>

&gt; &quot;ah2323&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:ahecht2323&#64;hotmail.com" target="_blank">ahecht2323&#64;hotmail.com</a>&gt; writes:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; [...]
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; There is also more opportunity for dishonesty, since most Americans
&gt;&gt; basically know bad coffee, but are not particularly savvy about tea.
&gt;
&gt; If most Americans basically know bad coffee, they must love it. That
&gt; probably explains why vendors are so eager to satisfy the demand.
&gt;
&gt; /Lew


I actually know somebody who, in his coffee drinking days, roasted his own
beans, insuring quality. Cool.
Michael

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#28: Re: Ten Ren? Is it good tea?

Posted on 2006-05-12 21:42:26 by Lewis Perin

Michael Plant &lt;<a href="mailto:mplant&#64;pipeline.com" target="_blank">mplant&#64;pipeline.com</a>&gt; writes:

&gt; Lewis <a href="mailto:Perinpc7d5ejxogw.fsf&#64;panix1.panix.com5" target="_blank">Perinpc7d5ejxogw.fsf&#64;panix1.panix.com5</a>/12/06 11:<a href="mailto:16perin&#64;panix.com" target="_blank">16perin&#64;panix.com</a>
&gt;
&gt; &gt; &quot;ah2323&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:ahecht2323&#64;hotmail.com" target="_blank">ahecht2323&#64;hotmail.com</a>&gt; writes:
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt;&gt; [...]
&gt; &gt;&gt;
&gt; &gt;&gt; There is also more opportunity for dishonesty, since most
&gt; &gt;&gt; Americans basically know bad coffee, but are not particularly
&gt; &gt;&gt; savvy about tea.
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; If most Americans basically know bad coffee, they must love it.
&gt; &gt; That probably explains why vendors are so eager to satisfy the
&gt; &gt; demand.
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; /Lew
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; I actually know somebody who, in his coffee drinking days, roasted
&gt; his own beans, insuring quality. Cool.

Right; that would be me. The aroma of coffee beans roasting is
something I still miss (not at all like that of coffee brewing, but
strangely floral.)

/Lew
---
Lew Perin / <a href="mailto:perin&#64;acm.org" target="_blank">perin&#64;acm.org</a>
<a href="http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html" target="_blank">http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html</a>

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#29: Re: Ten Ren? Is it good tea?

Posted on 2006-05-15 17:18:18 by kludge

Mydnight &lt;<a href="mailto:myseri&#64;hotmail.com" target="_blank">myseri&#64;hotmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt;I have no particular interest in defending Ten Ren, although I enjoyed
&gt;&gt;my one visit there. But what Rick describes is *one instance* of
&gt;&gt;dishonest business practices. True, if it happened to me, it might be
&gt;&gt;enough to keep me away in the future. I got food poisoning at
&gt;&gt;Applebee's in 1993, and not only would I rather starve than eat there,
&gt;&gt;I curse them whenever I see one of their advertisements, LOL. But
&gt;&gt;still, such an instance is not enough to condemn the whole enterprise
&gt;&gt;everywhere and forever.
&gt;
&gt;It happened to me in Toronto and in NY. If I didn't speak some
&gt;Chinese, I wouldn't have been able to communicate with the little girls
&gt;in either shop. On top of that, the girls had little to none knowledge
&gt;on anything related to tea; I guessed they were relatives of the
&gt;manager or something.

I have been to both the Rockville and NYC shops and never had a problem
finding someone who spoke English. They may not have known very much
about the teas they were selling, but they have always been polite to
me and willing to make individual cups so I could try different grades.

&gt;In my mind, and this may be harsh, any sane person should stay away
&gt;from Ten Ren unless they are buying the dirt cheap tea that TenRen's
&gt;peddling. Granted, even that is probably being sold at a high price.

Actually, the lower grade teas from Ten Ren are very inexpensive. I
tend to buy the next-to-lowest grade stuff from them, as I agree the
higher grade teas are overpriced. I like their Oriental Beauty tea a
lot and have not seen an equivalent elsewhere. Their lapsang souchong
is pretty dreadful. The oolongs are all over the place in quality.

&gt;&gt;There is also more opportunity for dishonesty, since most Americans
&gt;&gt;basically know bad coffee, but are not particularly savvy about tea.
&gt;&gt;Not that this justifies such practices in any way, shape, or form.
&gt;
&gt;This is how the Chinese do business with foreigners.

Americans too. If they don't take you seriously and you don't seem to
be someone who knows what they are buying and whom they wish to cultivate
a business relationship, you will be taken by merchants of ANY nationality.
--scott
--
&quot;C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis.&quot;

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#30: Re: Ten Ren? Is it good tea?

Posted on 2006-05-15 18:30:23 by ah2323

S'right. Just ask any female who tries to get an honest estimate on car
repair. Which of China's provinces do those mechanics come from? LOL.



Scott Dorsey wrote:
&gt; Mydnight &lt;<a href="mailto:myseri&#64;hotmail.com" target="_blank">myseri&#64;hotmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt; Americans too. If they don't take you seriously and you don't seem to
&gt; be someone who knows what they are buying and whom they wish to cultivate
&gt; a business relationship, you will be taken by merchants of ANY nationality.
&gt; --scott
&gt; --
&gt; &quot;C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis.&quot;

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#31: Re: Ten Ren? Is it good tea?

Posted on 2006-05-16 11:52:29 by Michael Plant

[Scott re Ten Ren]
&gt; I have been to both the Rockville and NYC shops and never had a problem
&gt; finding someone who spoke English. They may not have known very much
&gt; about the teas they were selling, but they have always been polite to
&gt; me and willing to make individual cups so I could try different grades.

Can I ask when that was? In the early 1980's, the NYC Ten Ren girls would
gladly make cup after cup of gungfu tea in the back for me and my friends.
But, nowadays they seem satisfied with throwing a styrofoam cup of jasmine
into my hand. As for their English, I suppose I've been a bit harsh, but
more often than not they have nothing useful to say.

&gt;&gt; In my mind, and this may be harsh, any sane person should stay away
&gt;&gt; from Ten Ren unless they are buying the dirt cheap tea that TenRen's
&gt;&gt; peddling. Granted, even that is probably being sold at a high price.
&gt;
&gt; Actually, the lower grade teas from Ten Ren are very inexpensive. I
&gt; tend to buy the next-to-lowest grade stuff from them, as I agree the
&gt; higher grade teas are overpriced. I like their Oriental Beauty tea a
&gt; lot and have not seen an equivalent elsewhere. Their lapsang souchong
&gt; is pretty dreadful. The oolongs are all over the place in quality.

I am not saying that their tea is bad, per se; just that it begins to take
on a generic quality that gets quickly boring. That's of course nothing but
my ever so humble opinion. I'm fond of their Oriental Beauty myself.

&gt;&gt;&gt; There is also more opportunity for dishonesty, since most Americans
&gt;&gt;&gt; basically know bad coffee, but are not particularly savvy about tea.
&gt;&gt;&gt; Not that this justifies such practices in any way, shape, or form.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; This is how the Chinese do business with foreigners.
&gt;
&gt; Americans too. If they don't take you seriously and you don't seem to
&gt; be someone who knows what they are buying and whom they wish to cultivate
&gt; a business relationship, you will be taken by merchants of ANY nationality.

Seems as though at this juncture in their business history they've
cultivated these faults. I imagine that with more security this will
improve. But what do I know,

Michael

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#32: Re: Ten Ren? Is it good tea?

Posted on 2006-05-16 15:42:46 by Alex

Michael Plant wrote:
&gt; &gt;&gt; This is how the Chinese do business with foreigners.
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; Americans too. If they don't take you seriously and you don't seem to
&gt; &gt; be someone who knows what they are buying and whom they wish to cultivate
&gt; &gt; a business relationship, you will be taken by merchants of ANY nationality.
&gt;
&gt; Seems as though at this juncture in their business history they've
&gt; cultivated these faults. I imagine that with more security this will
&gt; improve. But what do I know,

Not that this has anything to do with tea, but if Chinese business
practices, especially towards foreigners, are something that you find
interesting, you might want to check out &quot;Negotiating China&quot; by Carolyn
Blackman.

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#33: Re: Ten Ren? Is it good tea?

Posted on 2006-05-25 16:59:22 by kludge

Michael Plant &lt;<a href="mailto:mplant&#64;pipeline.com" target="_blank">mplant&#64;pipeline.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;[Scott re Ten Ren]
&gt;&gt; I have been to both the Rockville and NYC shops and never had a problem
&gt;&gt; finding someone who spoke English. They may not have known very much
&gt;&gt; about the teas they were selling, but they have always been polite to
&gt;&gt; me and willing to make individual cups so I could try different grades.
&gt;
&gt;Can I ask when that was? In the early 1980's, the NYC Ten Ren girls would
&gt;gladly make cup after cup of gungfu tea in the back for me and my friends.
&gt;But, nowadays they seem satisfied with throwing a styrofoam cup of jasmine
&gt;into my hand. As for their English, I suppose I've been a bit harsh, but
&gt;more often than not they have nothing useful to say.

Pretty recently, although it's been maybe six months since I have been
to the Rockville store and a couple years since I went into the NYC
store.

It's true, though, that I have gone into the NYC store only knowing exactly
what I wanted to begin with. The last time I went in, I was with a friend
from out of town and we walked in and I asked about several kinds of tea
and if they could make cups for him to taste, and they were quite good
about it.

&gt;I am not saying that their tea is bad, per se; just that it begins to take
&gt;on a generic quality that gets quickly boring. That's of course nothing but
&gt;my ever so humble opinion. I'm fond of their Oriental Beauty myself.

A lot of their teas do, and most of them are basically variants of the
same green variety with more or less similar flavours. They don't have
a huge amount of variety among the main line, it's true. And they don't
really have any black teas other than their generic &quot;black&quot; line, which
is nothing impressive, the lapsang souchong, about which the less said
the better, and the &quot;oriental beauty&quot; which I think is the real standout.

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; There is also more opportunity for dishonesty, since most Americans
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; basically know bad coffee, but are not particularly savvy about tea.
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Not that this justifies such practices in any way, shape, or form.
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; This is how the Chinese do business with foreigners.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Americans too. If they don't take you seriously and you don't seem to
&gt;&gt; be someone who knows what they are buying and whom they wish to cultivate
&gt;&gt; a business relationship, you will be taken by merchants of ANY nationality.
&gt;
&gt;Seems as though at this juncture in their business history they've
&gt;cultivated these faults. I imagine that with more security this will
&gt;improve. But what do I know,

I hope so. And as someone who just bought a house, I can certainly say
that this sort of behaviour is more common than just in Chinese tea vendors.
--scott
--
&quot;C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis.&quot;

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#34: Re: Ten Ren? Is it good tea?

Posted on 2006-05-26 05:24:54 by MarshalN

An interesting advice I've gotten from a tea merchant about places like
Ten Ren is this -- buy their cheapest tea.

It might sound weird, but if you buy their cheapest tea, it's likely to
be fresh because people buy it all the time. if you buy their
expensive stuff, it's likely stuff that's been sitting in the same
canister for ages because nobody buys them.

And thinking about it, it makes a lot of sense.

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#35: Re: Ten Ren? Is it good tea?

Posted on 2006-05-26 16:47:37 by Lewis Perin

&quot;MarshalN&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:marshaln&#64;gmail.com" target="_blank">marshaln&#64;gmail.com</a>&gt; writes:

&gt; An interesting advice I've gotten from a tea merchant about places like
&gt; Ten Ren is this -- buy their cheapest tea.
&gt;
&gt; It might sound weird, but if you buy their cheapest tea, it's likely to
&gt; be fresh because people buy it all the time. if you buy their
&gt; expensive stuff, it's likely stuff that's been sitting in the same
&gt; canister for ages because nobody buys them.
&gt;
&gt; And thinking about it, it makes a lot of sense.

That makes a certain amount of sense, but it also puts a ceiling on
the quality of the tea. Another way to aim for freshness at Ten Ren
is to buy their foil-sealed seasonal oolongs.

/Lew
---
Lew Perin / <a href="mailto:perin&#64;acm.org" target="_blank">perin&#64;acm.org</a>
<a href="http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html" target="_blank">http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html</a>

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#36: Re: Ten Ren? Is it good tea?

Posted on 2006-05-26 17:59:03 by kludge

Lewis Perin &lt;<a href="mailto:perin&#64;panix.com" target="_blank">perin&#64;panix.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&quot;MarshalN&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:marshaln&#64;gmail.com" target="_blank">marshaln&#64;gmail.com</a>&gt; writes:
&gt;&gt; An interesting advice I've gotten from a tea merchant about places like
&gt;&gt; Ten Ren is this -- buy their cheapest tea.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; It might sound weird, but if you buy their cheapest tea, it's likely to
&gt;&gt; be fresh because people buy it all the time. if you buy their
&gt;&gt; expensive stuff, it's likely stuff that's been sitting in the same
&gt;&gt; canister for ages because nobody buys them.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; And thinking about it, it makes a lot of sense.
&gt;
&gt;That makes a certain amount of sense, but it also puts a ceiling on
&gt;the quality of the tea. Another way to aim for freshness at Ten Ren
&gt;is to buy their foil-sealed seasonal oolongs.

Also a good point, but you may not be able to try them before buying (although
you can often buy them in little sample packs).

I once got a sample pack of various different teas in bags at the Rockville
store, which were very, very very stale. In the bag you also have no idea
what the stuff is like until you get it home.

With Ten Ren, if you get their _highest_ grade tea, you'll also be okay,
because they don't stock it and they'll have to order it in special.
But the difference between their highest and lowest grades isn't enough
to warrant the difference in price to me.
--scott

--
&quot;C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis.&quot;

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#37: Re: Ten Ren? Is it good tea?

Posted on 2006-05-28 18:59:32 by Mydnight

&gt;With Ten Ren, if you get their _highest_ grade tea, you'll also be okay,
&gt;because they don't stock it and they'll have to order it in special.
&gt;But the difference between their highest and lowest grades isn't enough
&gt;to warrant the difference in price to me.

I found that in most of the TenRen shops that I visited, they are
trying to play the &quot;stupid foreigner&quot; card. They treat their customers
as if they know diddly-squat about tea and the mark-up in price
reflects that. Actually, there's a high percentage chance that if any
one of us walked into any given TenRen, that we may know more about tea
than the girls working there. The whole myth/mystery/magic idea that
Chinese people are the masters of tea in the whole world just doesn't
hold water.

Tea has two faces: Business and Culture. TenRen, as are most shops
that I've visited outside of China, is more concerned about the former
and not the latter. Keep this in mind when shopping there.

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#38: Re: Ten Ren? Is it good tea?

Posted on 2006-06-12 01:42:59 by bloehard

I did not even know about Ten Ren's retail stores when I posted my
original inquiry. I am pretty sure I won't be going there at least
anytime soon.
But is it true, as it seems from the responses, that you all like
their foil facked oolongs. That is what I had and was wondering if
they were priced right and of good quality. There is a number of them
behind the counter at the local asian market and would like to try
them because they are convenient to get. The one I got was about $30
for 300 grams. Pricey enough to pass up if not really that good, but
cheap enough to experiment if these are really good teas. I found the
high mountain oolong very tasty and floral, but I haven't had a lot of
oolongs and most I have had were not this Taiwanese green type.
It seems to be marketed to the local Asian community, so my sense was
that it might not be overpriced for a ignorant tourist population. In
a market like this, I wonder if I can really shop by price and count
on the more expensive teas really being worth it. (It is 99 Ranch in
Southern California for those in this region).
In short, did those of you who know, lke the Ten Ren foil packed,
loose oolongs that you have had? How do they compare to the mailorder
houses. I wonder if I should pass these Ten Rens by in favor of say an
Upton order? Or if these Ten Ren products are really quality tea.
Thanks all for their input!
On 26 May 2006 10:47:37 -0400, Lewis Perin &lt;<a href="mailto:perin&#64;panix.com" target="_blank">perin&#64;panix.com</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt;&quot;MarshalN&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:marshaln&#64;gmail.com" target="_blank">marshaln&#64;gmail.com</a>&gt; writes:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; An interesting advice I've gotten from a tea merchant about places like
&gt;&gt; Ten Ren is this -- buy their cheapest tea.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; It might sound weird, but if you buy their cheapest tea, it's likely to
&gt;&gt; be fresh because people buy it all the time. if you buy their
&gt;&gt; expensive stuff, it's likely stuff that's been sitting in the same
&gt;&gt; canister for ages because nobody buys them.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; And thinking about it, it makes a lot of sense.
&gt;
&gt;That makes a certain amount of sense, but it also puts a ceiling on
&gt;the quality of the tea. Another way to aim for freshness at Ten Ren
&gt;is to buy their foil-sealed seasonal oolongs.
&gt;
&gt;/Lew
&gt;---
&gt;Lew Perin / <a href="mailto:perin&#64;acm.org" target="_blank">perin&#64;acm.org</a>
&gt;<a href="http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html" target="_blank">http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html</a>

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