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#1: Re: I'm considering being a vegetarian...

Posted on 2006-06-07 22:07:02 by dh

On 30 May 2006 12:52:48 -0700, &quot;Judy&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:duckiedarling86&#64;comcast.net" target="_blank">duckiedarling86&#64;comcast.net</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt;I'm considering being a vegetarian. I'm not entirely conserned with
&gt;animals as much as I am with the health benifits. I love whole grains,
&gt;fruit, and (of course) veggies and could care less about red meat,
&gt;pork, and chicken. A few things I cannot live without, however, are
&gt;dairy products (I'm not fond of soy) and fish?

· Vegans contribute to the deaths of animals by their use of
wood and paper products, electricity, roads and all types of
buildings, their own diet, etc... just as everyone else does.
What they try to avoid are products which provide life
(and death) for farm animals, but even then they would have
to avoid the following in order to be successful:

Tires, Paper, Upholstery, Floor waxes, Glass, Water
Filters, Rubber, Fertilizer, Antifreeze, Ceramics, Insecticides,
Insulation, Linoleum, Plastic, Textiles, Blood factors, Collagen,
Heparin, Insulin, Solvents, Biodegradable Detergents, Herbicides,
Gelatin Capsules, Adhesive Tape, Laminated Wood Products,
Plywood, Paneling, Wallpaper and Wallpaper Paste, Cellophane
Wrap and Tape, Abrasives, Steel Ball Bearings

The meat industry provides life for the animals that it
slaughters, and the animals live and die as a result of it
as animals do in other habitats. They also depend on it for
their lives as animals do in other habitats. If people consume
animal products from animals they think are raised in decent
ways, they will be promoting life for more such animals in the
future. People who want to contribute to decent lives for
livestock with their lifestyle must do it by being conscientious
consumers of animal products, because they can not do it by
being vegan.
From the life and death of a thousand pound grass raised
steer and whatever he happens to kill during his life, people
get over 500 pounds of human consumable meat...that's well
over 500 servings of meat. From a grass raised dairy cow people
get thousands of dairy servings. Due to the influence of farm
machinery, and *icides, and in the case of rice the flooding and
draining of fields, one serving of soy or rice based product is
likely to involve more animal deaths than hundreds of servings
derived from grass raised animals. Grass raised animal products
contribute to fewer wildlife deaths, better wildlife habitat, and
better lives for livestock than soy or rice products. ·

&gt;Is it against vegetarian ettequite to eat these things?

Why would you care if you're only doing it for health reasons?

&gt;I also would like to know what you say when someone offers you meat
&gt;that is less unflattering than, &quot;I'm a vegetarian!&quot;?

No thanks?

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#2: Re: I'm considering being a vegetarian...

Posted on 2006-06-07 23:14:06 by unknown

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#3: Re: I'm considering being a vegetarian...

Posted on 2006-06-09 02:10:36 by dh

On 7 Jun 2006 21:14:06 GMT, Kevan &lt;<a href="mailto:cuthulu&#64;mouse-potato.com" target="_blank">cuthulu&#64;mouse-potato.com</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt;<a href="mailto:dh&#64;." target="_blank">dh&#64;.</a> wrote in news:<a href="mailto:lece82dkjq7ptmc85akpvilm80p7jiq20a&#64;4ax.com" target="_blank">lece82dkjq7ptmc85akpvilm80p7jiq20a&#64;4ax.com</a>:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; The meat industry provides life for the animals that it
&gt;&gt; slaughters, and the animals live and die as a result of it
&gt;&gt; as animals do in other habitats.
&gt;
&gt;The factory farm meat industry provides a living hell for the animals it
&gt;tortures before inhumane slaughter.

· Because there are so many different situations
involved in the raising of meat animals, it is completely
unfair to the animals to think of them all in the same
way, as &quot;ARAs&quot; appear to do. To think that all of it is
cruel, and to think of all animals which are raised for
the production of food in the same way, oversimplifies
and distorts one's interpretation of the way things
really are. Just as it would to think that there is no
cruelty or abuse at all.

Beef cattle spend nearly their entire lives outside
grazing, which is not a bad way to live. Veal are
confined to such a degree that they appear to have
terrible lives, so there's no reason to think of both
groups of animals in the same way.
Chickens raised as fryers and broilers, and egg
producers who are in a cage free environment--as well as
the birds who parent all of them, and the birds who parent
battery hens--are raised in houses, but not in cages. The
lives of those birds are not bad. Battery hens are confined
to cages, and have what appear to be terrible lives, so
there is no reason to think of battery hens and the other
groups in the same way. ·

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#4: Re: I'm considering being a vegetarian...

Posted on 2006-06-09 02:34:02 by pearl

&lt;<a href="mailto:dh&#64;." target="_blank">dh&#64;.</a>&gt; wrote in message news:<a href="mailto:p3fh82t0f2ir3u95nmi1mtp3jp0g7e96rl&#64;4ax.com..." target="_blank">p3fh82t0f2ir3u95nmi1mtp3jp0g7e96rl&#64;4ax.com...</a>
&gt; On 7 Jun 2006 21:14:06 GMT, Kevan &lt;<a href="mailto:cuthulu&#64;mouse-potato.com" target="_blank">cuthulu&#64;mouse-potato.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt; &gt;<a href="mailto:dh&#64;." target="_blank">dh&#64;.</a> wrote in news:<a href="mailto:lece82dkjq7ptmc85akpvilm80p7jiq20a&#64;4ax.com" target="_blank">lece82dkjq7ptmc85akpvilm80p7jiq20a&#64;4ax.com</a>:
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt;&gt; The meat industry provides life for the animals that it
&gt; &gt;&gt; slaughters, and the animals live and die as a result of it
&gt; &gt;&gt; as animals do in other habitats.
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt;The factory farm meat industry provides a living hell for the animals it
&gt; &gt;tortures before inhumane slaughter.

&gt; Beef cattle spend nearly their entire lives outside
&gt; grazing, which is not a bad way to live.

<a href="http://www.wasteofthewest.com/Chapter5.html" target="_blank">http://www.wasteofthewest.com/Chapter5.html</a>

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#5: Re: I'm considering being a vegetarian...

Posted on 2006-06-09 04:14:16 by unknown

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#6: Re: I'm considering being a vegetarian...

Posted on 2006-06-09 05:33:59 by rick etter

&quot;Kevan Smith&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:cuthulu&#64;mouse-potato.com" target="_blank">cuthulu&#64;mouse-potato.com</a>&gt; wrote in message
news:<a href="mailto:cuthulu-3DD00A.21141608062006&#64;news.newsguy.com..." target="_blank">cuthulu-3DD00A.21141608062006&#64;news.newsguy.com...</a>
&gt; In article &lt;<a href="mailto:p3fh82t0f2ir3u95nmi1mtp3jp0g7e96rl&#64;4ax.com" target="_blank">p3fh82t0f2ir3u95nmi1mtp3jp0g7e96rl&#64;4ax.com</a>&gt;, <a href="mailto:dh&#64;." target="_blank">dh&#64;.</a>
&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; On 7 Jun 2006 21:14:06 GMT, Kevan &lt;<a href="mailto:cuthulu&#64;mouse-potato.com" target="_blank">cuthulu&#64;mouse-potato.com</a>&gt;
&gt;&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; &gt;<a href="mailto:dh&#64;." target="_blank">dh&#64;.</a> wrote in
&gt;&gt; &gt;news:<a href="mailto:lece82dkjq7ptmc85akpvilm80p7jiq20a&#64;4ax.com" target="_blank">lece82dkjq7ptmc85akpvilm80p7jiq20a&#64;4ax.com</a>:
&gt;&gt; &gt;
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; The meat industry provides life for the animals that it
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; slaughters, and the animals live and die as a result of it
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; as animals do in other habitats.
&gt;&gt; &gt;
&gt;&gt; &gt;The factory farm meat industry provides a living hell for the
&gt;&gt; &gt;animals it
&gt;&gt; &gt;tortures before inhumane slaughter.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; · Because there are so many different situations
&gt;&gt; involved in the raising of meat animals .....
&gt;
&gt; I don't think you care about animal cruelty at all. I'm not
&gt; talking
&gt; animal rights. I'm just talking basic decency to animals.
&gt; Modern animal
&gt; agriculture has to specifically lobby government entities to be
&gt; excluded
&gt; from animal cruelty ordinances. They couldn't be in business
&gt; without
&gt; wholesale cruelty. It's integral to maximizing profit.
&gt; =============================
Glad you finally figured out the factory-farmed veggies are so
brutal, cruel, and inhumne, hypocrite.
getting your veggies to you at maximum prophit costs millions
upon millions of animals their lives if far more cruel inhumane
ways than at slaughterhouses.



&gt; --
&gt; fneep

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#7: Re: I'm considering being a vegetarian...

Posted on 2006-06-09 06:18:42 by unknown

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#8: Re: I'm considering being a vegetarian...

Posted on 2006-06-09 09:43:57 by Dutch

&quot;Kevan Smith&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:cuthulu&#64;mouse-potato.com" target="_blank">cuthulu&#64;mouse-potato.com</a>&gt; wrote
&gt; In article &lt;<a href="mailto:p3fh82t0f2ir3u95nmi1mtp3jp0g7e96rl&#64;4ax.com" target="_blank">p3fh82t0f2ir3u95nmi1mtp3jp0g7e96rl&#64;4ax.com</a>&gt;, <a href="mailto:dh&#64;." target="_blank">dh&#64;.</a> wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; On 7 Jun 2006 21:14:06 GMT, Kevan &lt;<a href="mailto:cuthulu&#64;mouse-potato.com" target="_blank">cuthulu&#64;mouse-potato.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; &gt;<a href="mailto:dh&#64;." target="_blank">dh&#64;.</a> wrote in news:<a href="mailto:lece82dkjq7ptmc85akpvilm80p7jiq20a&#64;4ax.com" target="_blank">lece82dkjq7ptmc85akpvilm80p7jiq20a&#64;4ax.com</a>:
&gt;&gt; &gt;
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; The meat industry provides life for the animals that it
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; slaughters, and the animals live and die as a result of it
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; as animals do in other habitats.
&gt;&gt; &gt;
&gt;&gt; &gt;The factory farm meat industry provides a living hell for the animals it
&gt;&gt; &gt;tortures before inhumane slaughter.

I think both of you are missing the truth from opposite ends. People don't
deserve moral brownie points for raising livestock, that's absurd, but
calling their lives a living hell is just hyperbole designed to inflame.
Animals in such a state would not thrive and unhealthy animals is not good
business. Also, saying categorically that slaughter is inhumane is just
untrue. Check out this site
<a href="http://www.grandin.com/survey/2005.restaurant.audits.html" target="_blank">http://www.grandin.com/survey/2005.restaurant.audits.html</a> These audits
reveal when there are problems. These issues have been decreasing steadily
over the years, and when sound practises are employed, few problems are
reported.

&gt;&gt; · Because there are so many different situations
&gt;&gt; involved in the raising of meat animals .....
&gt;
&gt; I don't think you care about animal cruelty at all. I'm not talking
&gt; animal rights. I'm just talking basic decency to animals.


&gt; Modern animal
&gt; agriculture has to specifically lobby government entities to be excluded
&gt; from animal cruelty ordinances. They couldn't be in business without
&gt; wholesale cruelty. It's integral to maximizing profit.

Profit is selling price less costs, as long as there is a playing field
there's no reason industry could not be profitable and still implement
animal welfare laws. On the other hand nobody should trust those people
whose real agenda is to eliminate animal farming completely, they will never
be satisfied.

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#9: Re: I'm considering being a vegetarian...

Posted on 2006-06-09 14:37:00 by rick etter

&quot;Kevan Smith&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:cuthulu&#64;mouse-potato.com" target="_blank">cuthulu&#64;mouse-potato.com</a>&gt; wrote in message
news:<a href="mailto:cuthulu-46F97F.23184208062006&#64;news.newsguy.com..." target="_blank">cuthulu-46F97F.23184208062006&#64;news.newsguy.com...</a>
&gt; In article
&gt; &lt;H_5ig.3533$<a href="mailto:lf4.2821&#64;newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net" target="_blank">lf4.2821&#64;newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net</a>&gt;,
&gt; &quot;rick&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:stop&#64;stop.net" target="_blank">stop&#64;stop.net</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; Glad you finally figured out the factory-farmed veggies are so
&gt;&gt; brutal, cruel, and inhumne, hypocrite.
&gt;&gt; getting your veggies to you at maximum prophit costs millions
&gt;&gt; upon millions of animals their lives if far more cruel
&gt;&gt; inhumane
&gt;&gt; ways than at slaughterhouses.
&gt;
&gt; Frankly, I think you are completely exaggerating.
&gt;
&gt; There are accurate numbers for the number of animals
&gt; slaughtered each
&gt; year by the U.S meat industry. You have only a fantasyland
&gt; number for
&gt; the number of animals killed by horticulture.
=========================
Yeah, keep telling yourself that, killer. makes you sleep better
at night lying to yourself, right fool?

Here, I'll keep you awake with your usenet usage now, killer.

Here's billions of animals killed by just 3 power generators, out
of over 13000 in the US, killer. Yes, billions!
Now, sleep on the fact that your selfishness, conveninece and
entertainment all demand that animal die, in untold billions and
billions, hypocrite.

<a href="http://www.closeindianpoint.org/articles/tjn_071103.htm" target="_blank">http://www.closeindianpoint.org/articles/tjn_071103.htm</a>


&gt;
&gt; --
&gt; fneep

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#10: Re: I'm considering being a vegetarian...

Posted on 2006-06-09 18:58:03 by unknown

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#11: Re: I'm considering being a vegetarian...

Posted on 2006-06-09 19:05:54 by unknown

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#12: Re: I'm considering being a vegetarian...

Posted on 2006-06-09 20:04:23 by Dutch

&quot;Kevan Smith&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:cuthulu&#64;mouse-potato.com" target="_blank">cuthulu&#64;mouse-potato.com</a>&gt; wrote
&gt; In article &lt;<a href="mailto:128i9lsiobh0lab&#64;news.supernews.com" target="_blank">128i9lsiobh0lab&#64;news.supernews.com</a>&gt;, &quot;Dutch&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:no&#64;email.com" target="_blank">no&#64;email.com</a>&gt;
&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; I think both of you are missing the truth from opposite ends. People
&gt;&gt; don't
&gt;&gt; deserve moral brownie points for raising livestock, that's absurd, but
&gt;&gt; calling their lives a living hell is just hyperbole designed to inflame.
&gt;&gt; Animals in such a state would not thrive and unhealthy animals is not
&gt;&gt; good
&gt;&gt; business. Also, saying categorically that slaughter is inhumane is just
&gt;&gt; untrue. Check out this site
&gt;&gt; <a href="http://www.grandin.com/survey/2005.restaurant.audits.html" target="_blank">http://www.grandin.com/survey/2005.restaurant.audits.html</a> These audits
&gt;&gt; reveal when there are problems. These issues have been decreasing
&gt;&gt; steadily
&gt;&gt; over the years, and when sound practises are employed, few problems are
&gt;&gt; reported.
&gt;
&gt; I am specifically singling out large factory farms.

So you are OK with smaller farms? Where do you draw the line?

&gt; Life for animals on
&gt; those farms is indeed a living hell.

Define that. What makes it a living hell?

&gt;They definitely do not thrive, and
&gt; they are often unhealthy. Sick and diseased animals do make it into the
&gt; human food chain that way.

Prove that is a systemic problem, not isolated.

&gt; Mass mechanized slaughter as practiced in today's slaughterhouses is
&gt; inhumane to many of the animals rendered,

What do mean by &quot;mechanized slaughter&quot;? Afaik, killing is done by humans.

&gt;as even your link shows.

It shows a very low instance of measurable problems. Certainly when compared
to death in the wild like starving, drowning, freezing to death, or being
disembowelled alive by a predator, not to mention being poisoned by
herbicides or chopped up in a threshing machine, dying in a slaughterhouse
offers a much higher probability of a death free of suffering.

&gt; Further, the study you cite doesn't mention methodology. How was the
&gt; data collected? Was a non-biased observer collecting the data, or did it
&gt; come from factory-supplied paperwork?

Grandin's teams are independent and the audits are done without prior
warning. All the info is on the site. www.grandin.com

&gt; Anyway, there is plenty of video footage of factory farms and
&gt; slaughterhouses available on the internet. Since seeing is believing,
&gt; you should try to view some.

I find it a little suspicious that you are so skeptical when reading
statistics like those I provided, yet you are willing to accept photos as
conclusive evidence that the entire industry is frought with abuse. Of
course there are instances of harm and abuse, that is anecdotal however, not
necessarily indicative of the whole industry. Could it be that what you
really believe is that all animal use should be discontinued?

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#13: Re: I'm considering being a vegetarian...

Posted on 2006-06-09 21:54:37 by Kevan

&quot;Dutch&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:no&#64;email.com" target="_blank">no&#64;email.com</a>&gt; wrote in news:<a href="mailto:128je174jjpe8df&#64;news.supernews.com" target="_blank">128je174jjpe8df&#64;news.supernews.com</a>:

&gt;
&gt; &quot;Kevan Smith&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:cuthulu&#64;mouse-potato.com" target="_blank">cuthulu&#64;mouse-potato.com</a>&gt; wrote

&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; I am specifically singling out large factory farms.
&gt;
&gt; So you are OK with smaller farms? Where do you draw the line?

I am personally an abolitionist. However, to be pragmatic and non-violent,
I'm willing to discuss each case on its own merits. Though I singled out
factory farms, some Mom &amp; Pop farms can be just as cruel.

&gt;&gt; Life for animals on
&gt;&gt; those farms is indeed a living hell.
&gt;
&gt; Define that. What makes it a living hell?

Veal crates? Battery cages? Hog confinement? Look at the videos and the
conditions of the animals.

&gt;
&gt;&gt; Mass mechanized slaughter as practiced in today's slaughterhouses is
&gt;&gt; inhumane to many of the animals rendered,
&gt;
&gt; What do mean by &quot;mechanized slaughter&quot;? Afaik, killing is done by
&gt; humans.

In a mechanized setting. Humans also build cars, but it's a mechanized
process.

&gt;
&gt;&gt;as even your link shows.
&gt;
&gt; It shows a very low instance of measurable problems. Certainly when
&gt; compared to death in the wild like starving, drowning, freezing to
&gt; death, or being disembowelled alive by a predator, not to mention
&gt; being poisoned by herbicides or chopped up in a threshing machine,
&gt; dying in a slaughterhouse offers a much higher probability of a death
&gt; free of suffering.

Factory farms and mass slaughter are fundamentally different from natural
dangers and threats. Those should be excluded from debate. Modern animal
agriculture has as its sole purpose making monetary profit, to eke
financial gain from animal suffering. Nature has no profit motive.

&gt;&gt; Further, the study you cite doesn't mention methodology. How was the
&gt;&gt; data collected? Was a non-biased observer collecting the data, or did
&gt;&gt; it come from factory-supplied paperwork?
&gt;
&gt; Grandin's teams are independent and the audits are done without prior
&gt; warning. All the info is on the site. www.grandin.com.

I noticed she designs slaughterhouses. Not exactly an unbiased observer.
Also, her stats are from only a few slaughterhouses in one state. I don't
think it's a very generalizeable study.

&gt;
&gt;&gt; Anyway, there is plenty of video footage of factory farms and
&gt;&gt; slaughterhouses available on the internet. Since seeing is believing,
&gt;&gt; you should try to view some.
&gt;
&gt; I find it a little suspicious that you are so skeptical when reading
&gt; statistics like those I provided, yet you are willing to accept photos
&gt; as conclusive evidence that the entire industry is frought with abuse.
&gt; Of course there are instances of harm and abuse, that is anecdotal
&gt; however, not necessarily indicative of the whole industry. Could it be
&gt; that what you really believe is that all animal use should be
&gt; discontinued?

You didn't provide all that great a statistical example. I evaluated it
based on accepted means of analysis, and I didn't take any unfair shots. If
you find a better one, I'll evaluate it on its merits, too. I am open
minded about science.

Abolition of factory farming is my ultimate goal. Animal use is another
matter. We have symbiotic and near-symbiotic relationships with many
animals that I not only accept but embrace.

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#14: Re: I'm considering being a vegetarian...

Posted on 2006-06-10 01:49:57 by rick etter

&quot;Kevan Smith&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:cuthulu&#64;mouse-potato.com" target="_blank">cuthulu&#64;mouse-potato.com</a>&gt; wrote in message
news:<a href="mailto:cuthulu-247B57.11580309062006&#64;news.newsguy.com..." target="_blank">cuthulu-247B57.11580309062006&#64;news.newsguy.com...</a>
&gt; In article
&gt; &lt;MXdig.3541$<a href="mailto:o4.790&#64;newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net" target="_blank">o4.790&#64;newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net</a>&gt;,
&gt; &quot;rick&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:stop&#64;stop.net" target="_blank">stop&#64;stop.net</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; Here's billions of animals killed by just 3 power generators,
&gt;&gt; out
&gt;&gt; of over 13000 in the US, killer. Yes, billions!
&gt;&gt; Now, sleep on the fact that your selfishness, conveninece and
&gt;&gt; entertainment all demand that animal die, in untold billions
&gt;&gt; and
&gt;&gt; billions, hypocrite.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; <a href="http://www.closeindianpoint.org/articles/tjn_071103.htm" target="_blank">http://www.closeindianpoint.org/articles/tjn_071103.htm</a>
&gt;
&gt; That's a newspaper article on an advocacy site to close a
&gt; nuclear power
&gt; plant.
========================
Based on state data, fool. Try reading with your eyes open for a
change.
What part of &quot;...The analysis, prepared by the state Department
of Environmental Conservation...&quot;
don't you understand. Unlike the sites you AR/vegan fools
dribble out, this artical is based on real data.



I am in favor of closing that plant. If it's not closed, then
&gt; water from the Hudson River shouldn't be used to cool the
&gt; reactors
&gt; without returning it to ambient water temps.
&gt;
&gt; Anyway, those plants do not supply me with electricity. There's
&gt; a
&gt; land-bound, coal-burning plant about 180 miles south of me that
&gt; does
&gt; that.
=========================
ROTFLMAO More willful ignorance, eh killer? Try educating
yourself just a little, fool...



&gt;
&gt; --
&gt; fneep

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#15: Re: I'm considering being a vegetarian...

Posted on 2006-06-10 01:58:55 by rick etter

&quot;Kevan&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:cuthulu&#64;mouse-potato.com" target="_blank">cuthulu&#64;mouse-potato.com</a>&gt; wrote in message
news:<a href="mailto:e6cjlt07j4&#64;news2.newsguy.com..." target="_blank">e6cjlt07j4&#64;news2.newsguy.com...</a>
&gt; &quot;Dutch&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:no&#64;email.com" target="_blank">no&#64;email.com</a>&gt; wrote in
&gt; news:<a href="mailto:128je174jjpe8df&#64;news.supernews.com" target="_blank">128je174jjpe8df&#64;news.supernews.com</a>:
&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; &quot;Kevan Smith&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:cuthulu&#64;mouse-potato.com" target="_blank">cuthulu&#64;mouse-potato.com</a>&gt; wrote
&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; I am specifically singling out large factory farms.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; So you are OK with smaller farms? Where do you draw the line?
&gt;
&gt; I am personally an abolitionist. However, to be pragmatic and
&gt; non-violent,
&gt; I'm willing to discuss each case on its own merits. Though I
&gt; singled out
&gt; factory farms, some Mom &amp; Pop farms can be just as cruel.
===================
ALL of your mono-culture crop farms are cruel, hypocrite. Wht do
you always seem to ignore the far more crusl, brutal, inhumane
deaths that take plce there in far greater numbers? Willful
ignorance, or just plain stupidity?



&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; Life for animals on
&gt;&gt;&gt; those farms is indeed a living hell.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Define that. What makes it a living hell?
&gt;
&gt; Veal crates? Battery cages? Hog confinement? Look at the videos
&gt; and the
&gt; conditions of the animals.
&gt; ==========================
Pra[aganda videos made up by losers?



&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; Mass mechanized slaughter as practiced in today's
&gt;&gt;&gt; slaughterhouses is
&gt;&gt;&gt; inhumane to many of the animals rendered,
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; What do mean by &quot;mechanized slaughter&quot;? Afaik, killing is
&gt;&gt; done by
&gt;&gt; humans.
&gt;
&gt; In a mechanized setting. Humans also build cars, but it's a
&gt; mechanized
&gt; process.
&gt; ============================
LOL Then let's talk about your killing fields and usenet,
hypocrite!



&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;as even your link shows.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; It shows a very low instance of measurable problems. Certainly
&gt;&gt; when
&gt;&gt; compared to death in the wild like starving, drowning,
&gt;&gt; freezing to
&gt;&gt; death, or being disembowelled alive by a predator, not to
&gt;&gt; mention
&gt;&gt; being poisoned by herbicides or chopped up in a threshing
&gt;&gt; machine,
&gt;&gt; dying in a slaughterhouse offers a much higher probability of
&gt;&gt; a death
&gt;&gt; free of suffering.
&gt;
&gt; Factory farms and mass slaughter are fundamentally different
&gt; from natural
&gt; dangers and threats. Those should be excluded from debate.
&gt; Modern animal
&gt; agriculture has as its sole purpose making monetary profit, to
&gt; eke
&gt; financial gain from animal suffering. Nature has no profit
&gt; motive.
==================================
ROTFLMAO You really are just too stupid for this, aren't you.
If any agricultural aspect DEPENDS on the systematic, deliberate,
brutaal, inhumane killing of animals without regard to their
conditions, it is crop farming you ignorant buffoon. Animal
farning has a need to keep animals healthy and in good shape,
regardless of your incessent lys, killer. On the other hand, the
more animals and pests you can kill for your crop farming means
greater profits, because more crops makes it to market.



&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; Further, the study you cite doesn't mention methodology. How
&gt;&gt;&gt; was the
&gt;&gt;&gt; data collected? Was a non-biased observer collecting the
&gt;&gt;&gt; data, or did
&gt;&gt;&gt; it come from factory-supplied paperwork?
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Grandin's teams are independent and the audits are done
&gt;&gt; without prior
&gt;&gt; warning. All the info is on the site. www.grandin.com.
&gt;
&gt; I noticed she designs slaughterhouses. Not exactly an unbiased
&gt; observer.
&gt; Also, her stats are from only a few slaughterhouses in one
&gt; state. I don't
&gt; think it's a very generalizeable study.
=======================
Ah, but your few propaganda videos are the norm? LOL What a
hoot!!!



&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; Anyway, there is plenty of video footage of factory farms and
&gt;&gt;&gt; slaughterhouses available on the internet. Since seeing is
&gt;&gt;&gt; believing,
&gt;&gt;&gt; you should try to view some.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; I find it a little suspicious that you are so skeptical when
&gt;&gt; reading
&gt;&gt; statistics like those I provided, yet you are willing to
&gt;&gt; accept photos
&gt;&gt; as conclusive evidence that the entire industry is frought
&gt;&gt; with abuse.
&gt;&gt; Of course there are instances of harm and abuse, that is
&gt;&gt; anecdotal
&gt;&gt; however, not necessarily indicative of the whole industry.
&gt;&gt; Could it be
&gt;&gt; that what you really believe is that all animal use should be
&gt;&gt; discontinued?
&gt;
&gt; You didn't provide all that great a statistical example. I
&gt; evaluated it
&gt; based on accepted means of analysis, and I didn't take any
&gt; unfair shots. If
&gt; you find a better one, I'll evaluate it on its merits, too. I
&gt; am open
&gt; minded about science.
&gt;
&gt; Abolition of factory farming is my ultimate goal. Animal use is
&gt; another
&gt; matter. We have symbiotic and near-symbiotic relationships with
&gt; many
&gt; animals that I not only accept but embrace.
&gt; ========================
Like killing them for entertainment, eh hypocrite?


&gt;

Report this message

#16: Re: I'm considering being a vegetarian...

Posted on 2006-06-10 03:11:48 by Dutch

&quot;Kevan&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:cuthulu&#64;mouse-potato.com" target="_blank">cuthulu&#64;mouse-potato.com</a>&gt; wrote in message
news:<a href="mailto:e6cjlt07j4&#64;news2.newsguy.com..." target="_blank">e6cjlt07j4&#64;news2.newsguy.com...</a>
&gt; &quot;Dutch&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:no&#64;email.com" target="_blank">no&#64;email.com</a>&gt; wrote in news:<a href="mailto:128je174jjpe8df&#64;news.supernews.com" target="_blank">128je174jjpe8df&#64;news.supernews.com</a>:
&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; &quot;Kevan Smith&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:cuthulu&#64;mouse-potato.com" target="_blank">cuthulu&#64;mouse-potato.com</a>&gt; wrote
&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; I am specifically singling out large factory farms.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; So you are OK with smaller farms? Where do you draw the line?
&gt;
&gt; I am personally an abolitionist.

That position seriously affects your ability to judge objectively what is
cruel and what is not.

&gt;However, to be pragmatic and non-violent,
&gt; I'm willing to discuss each case on its own merits. Though I singled out
&gt; factory farms, some Mom &amp; Pop farms can be just as cruel.

My experience with small farms tells a different story. In the province of
Ontario, Canada where I grew up and lived on some small farms, cruelty is
not an issue. Most of the meat industry was supplied by small farms which
raise animals and sell them to slaughterhouses or feedlots.

&gt;&gt;&gt; Life for animals on
&gt;&gt;&gt; those farms is indeed a living hell.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Define that. What makes it a living hell?
&gt;
&gt; Veal crates?

Veal is not raised in crates any more, afaik, and that was a tiny segment of
the meat industry.

&gt; Battery cages?

Those are being replaced more and more by free-range farming. I haven't
bought anything but free-range eggs or beef for years.

&gt; Hog confinement?

That's also changing.

&gt; Look at the videos and the
&gt; conditions of the animals.

Looking at videos is good if one is trying to appeal to emotion. Reading
reports is better if one is looking for objective information.

&gt;&gt;&gt; Mass mechanized slaughter as practiced in today's slaughterhouses is
&gt;&gt;&gt; inhumane to many of the animals rendered,
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; What do mean by &quot;mechanized slaughter&quot;? Afaik, killing is done by
&gt;&gt; humans.
&gt;
&gt; In a mechanized setting. Humans also build cars, but it's a mechanized
&gt; process.

The fruit, vegetable and grain industries are far more mechanized than
animal farming, much to the detriment of indigenous animals. That's the
legacy of vegan foods.

The truth is, you're just another propagandist. You concocted the term &quot;mass
mechanized slaughter&quot; because it's scary sounding, and vegans are all about
appealing to emotions, not reason.

&gt;&gt;&gt;as even your link shows.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; It shows a very low instance of measurable problems. Certainly when
&gt;&gt; compared to death in the wild like starving, drowning, freezing to
&gt;&gt; death, or being disembowelled alive by a predator, not to mention
&gt;&gt; being poisoned by herbicides or chopped up in a threshing machine,
&gt;&gt; dying in a slaughterhouse offers a much higher probability of a death
&gt;&gt; free of suffering.
&gt;
&gt; Factory farms and mass slaughter are fundamentally different from natural
&gt; dangers and threats.

Yes, they are far more gentle.

&gt; Those should be excluded from debate.

Because they don't feather your nest.

&gt; Modern animal
&gt; agriculture has as its sole purpose making monetary profit,

That's false, all animal farming, modern and ancient, has had as it's
primary goal to produce food. Profit is an essential component of it, as it
is of every aspect of commerce. Do YOU work for nothing?

&gt; to eke
&gt; financial gain from animal suffering.

False, the motive is to eke financial gain by producing a product that
people want.

&gt; Nature has no profit motive.

What do you have against profit? The concept of profit is what makes the
world economy work.

&gt;&gt;&gt; Further, the study you cite doesn't mention methodology. How was the
&gt;&gt;&gt; data collected? Was a non-biased observer collecting the data, or did
&gt;&gt;&gt; it come from factory-supplied paperwork?
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Grandin's teams are independent and the audits are done without prior
&gt;&gt; warning. All the info is on the site. www.grandin.com.
&gt;
&gt; I noticed she designs slaughterhouses. Not exactly an unbiased observer.

Why? Her designs are aimed at eliminating stress to animals.

&gt; Also, her stats are from only a few slaughterhouses in one state. I don't
&gt; think it's a very generalizeable study.
&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; Anyway, there is plenty of video footage of factory farms and
&gt;&gt;&gt; slaughterhouses available on the internet. Since seeing is believing,
&gt;&gt;&gt; you should try to view some.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; I find it a little suspicious that you are so skeptical when reading
&gt;&gt; statistics like those I provided, yet you are willing to accept photos
&gt;&gt; as conclusive evidence that the entire industry is frought with abuse.
&gt;&gt; Of course there are instances of harm and abuse, that is anecdotal
&gt;&gt; however, not necessarily indicative of the whole industry. Could it be
&gt;&gt; that what you really believe is that all animal use should be
&gt;&gt; discontinued?
&gt;
&gt; You didn't provide all that great a statistical example. I evaluated it
&gt; based on accepted means of analysis, and I didn't take any unfair shots.
&gt; If
&gt; you find a better one, I'll evaluate it on its merits, too. I am open
&gt; minded about science.
&gt;
&gt; Abolition of factory farming is my ultimate goal.

I thought your ultimate goal was abolition of all animal farming.

&gt; Animal use is another
&gt; matter. We have symbiotic and near-symbiotic relationships with many
&gt; animals that I not only accept but embrace.

Of course, like the relationship with the countless animals that thrive
living off crops then are decimated by 'cides, ploughing, harvesting, etc..

Report this message

#17: Re: I'm considering being a vegetarian...

Posted on 2006-06-10 06:49:17 by pipes

Fuckwit David Harrison, ignorant lying pig-sodomizing
cracker shitbag, blabbered:

&gt; On 30 May 2006 12:52:48 -0700, &quot;Judy&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:duckiedarling86&#64;comcast.net" target="_blank">duckiedarling86&#64;comcast.net</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;&gt;I'm considering being a vegetarian. I'm not entirely conserned with
&gt;&gt;animals as much as I am with the health benifits. I love whole grains,
&gt;&gt;fruit, and (of course) veggies and could care less about red meat,
&gt;&gt;pork, and chicken. A few things I cannot live without, however, are
&gt;&gt;dairy products (I'm not fond of soy) and fish?
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; · Vegans contribute to

Shut your fucking cracker mouth, Fuckwit.

Report this message

#18: Re: I'm considering being a vegetarian...

Posted on 2006-06-10 06:50:44 by pipes

Kevan Smith wrote:

&gt; In article &lt;<a href="mailto:p3fh82t0f2ir3u95nmi1mtp3jp0g7e96rl&#64;4ax.com" target="_blank">p3fh82t0f2ir3u95nmi1mtp3jp0g7e96rl&#64;4ax.com</a>&gt;, <a href="mailto:dh&#64;." target="_blank">dh&#64;.</a> wrote:
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;&gt;On 7 Jun 2006 21:14:06 GMT, Kevan &lt;<a href="mailto:cuthulu&#64;mouse-potato.com" target="_blank">cuthulu&#64;mouse-potato.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;<a href="mailto:dh&#64;." target="_blank">dh&#64;.</a> wrote in news:<a href="mailto:lece82dkjq7ptmc85akpvilm80p7jiq20a&#64;4ax.com" target="_blank">lece82dkjq7ptmc85akpvilm80p7jiq20a&#64;4ax.com</a>:
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; The meat industry provides life for the animals that it
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;slaughters, and the animals live and die as a result of it
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;as animals do in other habitats.
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;The factory farm meat industry provides a living hell for the animals it
&gt;&gt;&gt;tortures before inhumane slaughter.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; · Because there are so many different situations
&gt;&gt;involved in the raising of meat animals .....
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; I don't think you care about animal cruelty at all.

He doesn't. Fuckwit David Harrison - that's <a href="mailto:'dh&#64;." target="_blank">'dh&#64;.</a>'
real name - is only concerned with himself. There's
nothing wrong with being concerned only with oneself,
but there's a lot wrong with lying about it and
pretending to have others' interests at heart.

Report this message

#19: Re: I'm considering being a vegetarian...

Posted on 2006-06-10 06:51:45 by pipes

Kevan Smith wrote:

&gt; In article &lt;MXdig.3541$<a href="mailto:o4.790&#64;newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net" target="_blank">o4.790&#64;newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net</a>&gt;,
&gt; &quot;rick&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:stop&#64;stop.net" target="_blank">stop&#64;stop.net</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;&gt;Here's billions of animals killed by just 3 power generators, out
&gt;&gt;of over 13000 in the US, killer. Yes, billions!
&gt;&gt;Now, sleep on the fact that your selfishness, conveninece and
&gt;&gt;entertainment all demand that animal die, in untold billions and
&gt;&gt;billions, hypocrite.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;<a href="http://www.closeindianpoint.org/articles/tjn_071103.htm" target="_blank">http://www.closeindianpoint.org/articles/tjn_071103.htm</a>
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; That's a newspaper article on an advocacy site to close a nuclear power
&gt; plant. I am in favor of closing that plant. If it's not closed, then
&gt; water from the Hudson River shouldn't be used to cool the reactors
&gt; without returning it to ambient water temps.
&gt;
&gt; Anyway, those plants do not supply me with electricity. There's a
&gt; land-bound, coal-burning plant about 180 miles south of me that does
&gt; that.

....that also contributes to global warming and other
forms of pollution. You smug prick.

Report this message

#20: Re: I'm considering being a vegetarian...

Posted on 2006-06-10 06:56:22 by pipes

Kevan wrote:

&gt; &quot;Dutch&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:no&#64;email.com" target="_blank">no&#64;email.com</a>&gt; wrote in news:<a href="mailto:128je174jjpe8df&#64;news.supernews.com" target="_blank">128je174jjpe8df&#64;news.supernews.com</a>:
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;&gt;&quot;Kevan Smith&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:cuthulu&#64;mouse-potato.com" target="_blank">cuthulu&#64;mouse-potato.com</a>&gt; wrote
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;I am specifically singling out large factory farms.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;So you are OK with smaller farms? Where do you draw the line?
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; I am personally an abolitionist.

i.e., a fascist. Of course.


&gt;&gt;&gt;Mass mechanized slaughter as practiced in today's slaughterhouses is
&gt;&gt;&gt;inhumane to many of the animals rendered,
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;What do mean by &quot;mechanized slaughter&quot;? Afaik, killing is done by
&gt;&gt;humans.
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; In a mechanized setting.

You're a Luddite - a stupid, anti-progress fascist Luddite.


&gt;&gt;&gt;as even your link shows.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;It shows a very low instance of measurable problems. Certainly when
&gt;&gt;compared to death in the wild like starving, drowning, freezing to
&gt;&gt;death, or being disembowelled alive by a predator, not to mention
&gt;&gt;being poisoned by herbicides or chopped up in a threshing machine,
&gt;&gt;dying in a slaughterhouse offers a much higher probability of a death
&gt;&gt;free of suffering.
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; Factory farms and mass slaughter are fundamentally different from natural
&gt; dangers and threats.

You're an ignorant, misanthropic, anti-commerce
Luddite. Fuck you.


&gt;&gt;&gt;Further, the study you cite doesn't mention methodology. How was the
&gt;&gt;&gt;data collected? Was a non-biased observer collecting the data, or did
&gt;&gt;&gt;it come from factory-supplied paperwork?
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;Grandin's teams are independent and the audits are done without prior
&gt;&gt;warning. All the info is on the site. www.grandin.com.
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; I noticed she designs slaughterhouses. Not exactly an unbiased observer.
&gt; Also, her stats are from only a few slaughterhouses in one state. I don't
&gt; think it's a very generalizeable study.

You're not qualified to say, and your bias is thousands
of times larger than whatever bias she might harbor.


&gt;&gt;&gt;Anyway, there is plenty of video footage of factory farms and
&gt;&gt;&gt;slaughterhouses available on the internet. Since seeing is believing,
&gt;&gt;&gt;you should try to view some.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;I find it a little suspicious that you are so skeptical when reading
&gt;&gt;statistics like those I provided, yet you are willing to accept photos
&gt;&gt;as conclusive evidence that the entire industry is frought with abuse.
&gt;&gt;Of course there are instances of harm and abuse, that is anecdotal
&gt;&gt;however, not necessarily indicative of the whole industry. Could it be
&gt;&gt;that what you really believe is that all animal use should be
&gt;&gt;discontinued?
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; You didn't provide all that great a statistical example.

You didn't provide *any*.

Shitbag.

Report this message

#21: Re: I'm considering being a vegetarian...

Posted on 2006-06-10 07:21:10 by unknown

Post removed (X-No-Archive: yes)

Report this message

#22: Re: I'm considering being a vegetarian...

Posted on 2006-06-10 15:00:49 by rick etter

&quot;Kevan Smith&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:cuthulu&#64;mouse-potato.com" target="_blank">cuthulu&#64;mouse-potato.com</a>&gt; wrote in message
news:<a href="mailto:cuthulu-EFF159.00211010062006&#64;news.newsguy.com..." target="_blank">cuthulu-EFF159.00211010062006&#64;news.newsguy.com...</a>
&gt; In article
&gt; &lt;Bdsig.4068$<a href="mailto:lp.2977&#64;newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net" target="_blank">lp.2977&#64;newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net</a>&gt;,
&gt; Leif Erikson &lt;<a href="mailto:pipes&#64;thedismalscience.net" target="_blank">pipes&#64;thedismalscience.net</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; ...that also contributes to global warming and other
&gt;&gt; forms of pollution. You smug prick.
&gt;
&gt; Good thing I use very few kilowatts per month and ride a bike
&gt; most
&gt; places.
=========================
Selfrightous smuggery doesn't become you, killer. You can't just
count your use at home, fool. As long as you use usenet you
contribute to a growing need for more power and communications as
you are connected world-wide, idiot. Thanks for again proving
that YOUR entertainment counts more than any concern for animals
to you. You really are a hoot, fool.


&gt;
&gt; --
&gt; fneep

Report this message

#23: Re: I'm considering being a vegetarian...

Posted on 2006-06-10 18:01:40 by Walter Pipes

Kevan Smith wrote:
&gt; In article &lt;Bdsig.4068$<a href="mailto:lp.2977&#64;newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net" target="_blank">lp.2977&#64;newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net</a>&gt;,
&gt; Leif Erikson &lt;<a href="mailto:pipes&#64;thedismalscience.net" target="_blank">pipes&#64;thedismalscience.net</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;&gt;...that also contributes to global warming and other
&gt;&gt;forms of pollution. You smug prick.
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; Good thing I use very few kilowatts per month and ride a bike most
&gt; places.

You smug prick.

You're deluding yourself with a vile fantasy that
you're &quot;better than&quot; people who don't subscribe to your
phony ethics.

Report this message

#24: Re: I'm considering being a vegetarian...

Posted on 2006-06-10 18:19:24 by shrubkiller

Leif Erikson wrote:
&gt; Kevan Smith wrote:
&gt; &gt; In article &lt;Bdsig.4068$<a href="mailto:lp.2977&#64;newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net" target="_blank">lp.2977&#64;newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net</a>&gt;,
&gt; &gt; Leif Erikson &lt;<a href="mailto:pipes&#64;thedismalscience.net" target="_blank">pipes&#64;thedismalscience.net</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt;&gt;...that also contributes to global warming and other
&gt; &gt;&gt;forms of pollution. You smug prick.
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; Good thing I use very few kilowatts per month and ride a bike most
&gt; &gt; places.
&gt;
&gt; You smug prick.
&gt;
&gt; You're deluding yourself with a vile fantasy that
&gt; you're &quot;better than&quot; people who don't subscribe to your
&gt; phony ethics.


You're just pissed 'cause you're too fat and too stupid to ride a bike
Goober.

Report this message

#25: Re: I'm considering being a vegetarian...

Posted on 2006-06-10 18:30:24 by Walter Pipes

whiny impotent shitstained homo fudgepacker
ronnnnnnnnnnie hamilton, the dweebiest punk in all
British Columbia, squealed:

&gt; Leif Erikson wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt;Kevan Smith wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;In article &lt;Bdsig.4068$<a href="mailto:lp.2977&#64;newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net" target="_blank">lp.2977&#64;newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net</a>&gt;,
&gt;&gt;&gt; Leif Erikson &lt;<a href="mailto:pipes&#64;thedismalscience.net" target="_blank">pipes&#64;thedismalscience.net</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;...that also contributes to global warming and other
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;forms of pollution. You smug prick.
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;Good thing I use very few kilowatts per month and ride a bike most
&gt;&gt;&gt;places.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;You smug prick.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;You're deluding yourself with a vile fantasy that
&gt;&gt;you're &quot;better than&quot; people who don't subscribe to your
&gt;&gt;phony ethics.
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; You're just

How's the burn on your forehead, ronnnnnnnnnnie? You
fat HIV+ cocksucking queer.

OK, ronnnnnnnnnnie - don't forget to shift to one of
your other fuckwitted cunt-for-braincell nyms when you
reply in 30 seconds.

Report this message

#26: Re: I'm considering being a vegetarian...

Posted on 2006-06-10 22:37:08 by unknown

Post removed (X-No-Archive: yes)

Report this message

#27: Re: kevin kills for entertainment...

Posted on 2006-06-10 23:06:08 by rick etter

&quot;rick&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:stop&#64;stop.net" target="_blank">stop&#64;stop.net</a>&gt; wrote in message
news:5ozig.4040$<a href="mailto:o4.1266&#64;newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net..." target="_blank">o4.1266&#64;newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...</a>
&gt;
&gt; &quot;Kevan Smith&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:cuthulu&#64;mouse-potato.com" target="_blank">cuthulu&#64;mouse-potato.com</a>&gt; wrote in message
&gt; news:<a href="mailto:cuthulu-EFF159.00211010062006&#64;news.newsguy.com..." target="_blank">cuthulu-EFF159.00211010062006&#64;news.newsguy.com...</a>
&gt;&gt; In article
&gt;&gt; &lt;Bdsig.4068$<a href="mailto:lp.2977&#64;newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net" target="_blank">lp.2977&#64;newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net</a>&gt;,
&gt;&gt; Leif Erikson &lt;<a href="mailto:pipes&#64;thedismalscience.net" target="_blank">pipes&#64;thedismalscience.net</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; ...that also contributes to global warming and other
&gt;&gt;&gt; forms of pollution. You smug prick.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Good thing I use very few kilowatts per month and ride a bike
&gt;&gt; most
&gt;&gt; places.
&gt; =========================
&gt; Selfrightous smuggery doesn't become you, killer. You can't
&gt; just count your use at home, fool. As long as you use usenet
&gt; you contribute to a growing need for more power and
&gt; communications as you are connected world-wide, idiot. Thanks
&gt; for again proving that YOUR entertainment counts more than any
&gt; concern for animals to you. You really are a hoot, fool.
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;&gt;

I see you couldn't refute the point that you kill for no more
reason than your entertainment, eh hypocrite?


&gt;&gt; --
&gt;&gt; fneep
&gt;
&gt;

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#28: Re: kevin kills for entertainment...

Posted on 2006-06-11 01:33:55 by unknown

Post removed (X-No-Archive: yes)

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#29: Re: kevin kills for entertainment...

Posted on 2006-06-11 04:42:18 by rick etter

&quot;Kevan Smith&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:cuthulu&#64;mouse-potato.com" target="_blank">cuthulu&#64;mouse-potato.com</a>&gt; wrote in message
news:<a href="mailto:cuthulu-287BF0.18335410062006&#64;news.newsguy.com..." target="_blank">cuthulu-287BF0.18335410062006&#64;news.newsguy.com...</a>
&gt; In article
&gt; &lt;4vGig.4389$<a href="mailto:lp.3898&#64;newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net" target="_blank">lp.3898&#64;newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net</a>&gt;,
&gt; &quot;rick&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:stop&#64;stop.net" target="_blank">stop&#64;stop.net</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; I see you couldn't refute the point that you kill for no more
&gt;&gt; reason than your entertainment, eh hypocrite?
&gt;
&gt; I don't even consider it a point as much as a hyperbolic
&gt; perjorative.
===================
LOL What a hoot kev, I see you have to dishonestly snip what you
don't like and can't refute, eh killer?

Thanks for again proving that animals are of no real concern to
you, hypocrite.


&gt;
&gt; And, if you put my name in a subject, spell it right, please.
&gt;
&gt; --
&gt; fneep

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#30: Re: I'm considering being a vegetarian...

Posted on 2006-06-11 19:25:41 by dh

On Fri, 9 Jun 2006 00:43:57 -0700, &quot;Dutch&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:no&#64;email.com" target="_blank">no&#64;email.com</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt;
&gt;&quot;Kevan Smith&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:cuthulu&#64;mouse-potato.com" target="_blank">cuthulu&#64;mouse-potato.com</a>&gt; wrote
&gt;&gt; In article &lt;<a href="mailto:p3fh82t0f2ir3u95nmi1mtp3jp0g7e96rl&#64;4ax.com" target="_blank">p3fh82t0f2ir3u95nmi1mtp3jp0g7e96rl&#64;4ax.com</a>&gt;, <a href="mailto:dh&#64;." target="_blank">dh&#64;.</a> wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; On 7 Jun 2006 21:14:06 GMT, Kevan &lt;<a href="mailto:cuthulu&#64;mouse-potato.com" target="_blank">cuthulu&#64;mouse-potato.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt;<a href="mailto:dh&#64;." target="_blank">dh&#64;.</a> wrote in news:<a href="mailto:lece82dkjq7ptmc85akpvilm80p7jiq20a&#64;4ax.com" target="_blank">lece82dkjq7ptmc85akpvilm80p7jiq20a&#64;4ax.com</a>:
&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; The meat industry provides life for the animals that it
&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; slaughters, and the animals live and die as a result of it
&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; as animals do in other habitats.
&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt;The factory farm meat industry provides a living hell for the animals it
&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt;tortures before inhumane slaughter.
&gt;
&gt;I think both of you are missing the truth

LOL!!! For pointing out facts that you detest, you absurdly lie and accuse
me of &quot;missing the truth&quot;. Hilarious!!!

&gt;from opposite ends. People don't
&gt;deserve moral brownie points for raising livestock,

How do you claim superior moral browny points for NEGLECTING to
consider the animals' lives?

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#31: Re: I'm considering being a vegetarian...

Posted on 2006-06-11 19:25:48 by dh

On Fri, 09 Jun 2006 12:05:54 -0500, Kevan Smith &lt;<a href="mailto:cuthulu&#64;mouse-potato.com" target="_blank">cuthulu&#64;mouse-potato.com</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt;Anyway, there is plenty of video footage of factory farms and
&gt;slaughterhouses available on the internet. Since seeing is believing,
&gt;you should try to view some.

All I've seen are the worst of the worst. Where can we see
what it's like under normal conditions, when things don't go wrong?

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#32: Re: I'm considering being a vegetarian...

Posted on 2006-06-11 19:33:40 by pipes

Kevan Smith wrote:
&gt; In article &lt;E1Cig.4073$<a href="mailto:o4.3584&#64;newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net" target="_blank">o4.3584&#64;newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net</a>&gt;,
&gt; Leif Erikson &lt;<a href="mailto:jackball&#64;phs.con" target="_blank">jackball&#64;phs.con</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;&gt;Kevan Smith wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;In article &lt;Bdsig.4068$<a href="mailto:lp.2977&#64;newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net" target="_blank">lp.2977&#64;newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net</a>&gt;,
&gt;&gt;&gt; Leif Erikson &lt;<a href="mailto:pipes&#64;thedismalscience.net" target="_blank">pipes&#64;thedismalscience.net</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;...that also contributes to global warming and other
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;forms of pollution. You smug prick.
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;Good thing I use very few kilowatts per month and ride a bike most
&gt;&gt;&gt;places.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;You smug prick.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;You're deluding yourself with a vile fantasy that
&gt;&gt;you're &quot;better than&quot; people who don't subscribe to your
&gt;&gt;phony ethics.
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; As long as you address me in this manner, I'll be ignoring you. If you
&gt; want to have a discussion, be polite. If you want to be foul-mouthed and
&gt; insulting, count me out.

You *are* deluded into believing that you're &quot;better
than&quot; those who don't subscribe to your phony ethics.
You are entirely predictable. I've long commented on
the fact that a stated belief in &quot;animal rights&quot; is a
highly reliable marker or predictor for overall extreme
leftwing barmy politics, and you don't disappoint us.
Not all far-left kooks are &quot;aras&quot;, but all &quot;aras&quot; are
far-left kooks, and by telling us that you're &quot;ara&quot;,
you've revealed your entire agenda; no need to guess at
any part of it. What separates &quot;aras&quot; from others on
the leftwing fringe is the extreme sanctimony. You
exhibit that perfectly.

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#33: Re: I'm considering being a vegetarian...

Posted on 2006-06-11 19:44:35 by unknown

Post removed (X-No-Archive: yes)

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#34: Re: I'm considering being a vegetarian...

Posted on 2006-06-11 19:56:42 by pipes

Fuckwit David Harrison, ignorant lying pig-sodomizing
goober cracker, lied:

&gt; On Fri, 9 Jun 2006 00:43:57 -0700, &quot;Dutch&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:no&#64;email.com" target="_blank">no&#64;email.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;&gt;&quot;Kevan Smith&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:cuthulu&#64;mouse-potato.com" target="_blank">cuthulu&#64;mouse-potato.com</a>&gt; wrote
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;In article &lt;<a href="mailto:p3fh82t0f2ir3u95nmi1mtp3jp0g7e96rl&#64;4ax.com" target="_blank">p3fh82t0f2ir3u95nmi1mtp3jp0g7e96rl&#64;4ax.com</a>&gt;, Fuckwit David Harrison, ignorant lying pig-sodomizing goober cracker, lied:
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;On 7 Jun 2006 21:14:06 GMT, Kevan &lt;<a href="mailto:cuthulu&#64;mouse-potato.com" target="_blank">cuthulu&#64;mouse-potato.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;Fuckwit David Harrison, ignorant lying pig-sodomizing goober cracker, lied:
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; The meat industry provides life for the animals that it
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;slaughters, and the animals live and die as a result of it
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;as animals do in other habitats.
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;The factory farm meat industry provides a living hell for the animals it
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;tortures before inhumane slaughter.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;I think both of you are missing the truth
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; LOL!!! For pointing out facts that you detest, you absurdly lie and accuse
&gt; me of &quot;missing the truth&quot;.

No, Fuckwit. You don't point any meaningful &quot;facts&quot; at
all. You *completely* miss the truth. The truth,
Fuckwit is: causing animals to exist is NOT conferring
a &quot;benefit&quot; on them.

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#35: Re: I'm considering being a vegetarian...

Posted on 2006-06-11 19:57:57 by pipes

Fuckwit David Harrison, ignorant lying pig-sodomizing
goober cracker, lied:

&gt; On Fri, 09 Jun 2006 12:05:54 -0500, Kevan Smith &lt;<a href="mailto:cuthulu&#64;mouse-potato.com" target="_blank">cuthulu&#64;mouse-potato.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;&gt;Anyway, there is plenty of video footage of factory farms and
&gt;&gt;slaughterhouses available on the internet. Since seeing is believing,
&gt;&gt;you should try to view some.
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; All I've seen are the worst of the worst. Where can we see
&gt; what it's like under normal conditions,

How do you know that isn't normal, Fuckwit? It
figures, Fuckwit, that you'd be defending factory
farms, proving once again that you don't give a shit
about animal welfare; you only care that the animals exist.

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#36: Re: I'm considering being a vegetarian...

Posted on 2006-06-12 17:14:05 by dh

On Sun, 11 Jun 2006 Goo amusingly promoted &quot;ar&quot; shock theater:

&gt;Fuckwit David Harrison, ignorant lying pig-sodomizing
&gt;goober cracker, lied:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; On Fri, 09 Jun 2006 12:05:54 -0500, Kevan Smith &lt;<a href="mailto:cuthulu&#64;mouse-potato.com" target="_blank">cuthulu&#64;mouse-potato.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;Anyway, there is plenty of video footage of factory farms and
&gt;&gt;&gt;slaughterhouses available on the internet. Since seeing is believing,
&gt;&gt;&gt;you should try to view some.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; All I've seen are the worst of the worst. Where can we see
&gt;&gt; what it's like under normal conditions,
&gt;
&gt;How do you know that isn't normal

I've only seen the worst from your &quot;ar&quot; heros, Goo.

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#37: Re: I'm considering being a vegetarian...

Posted on 2006-06-12 19:31:16 by Rudy Canoza

Fuckwit David Harrison, ignorant lying pig-sodomizing goober cracker,
lied:

&gt; On Sun, 11 Jun 2006 Leif Erikson kicked Fuckwit's goober cracker ass *again*:
&gt;
&gt; &gt;Fuckwit David Harrison, ignorant lying pig-sodomizing
&gt; &gt;goober cracker, lied:
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt;&gt; On Fri, 09 Jun 2006 12:05:54 -0500, Kevan Smith &lt;<a href="mailto:cuthulu&#64;mouse-potato.com" target="_blank">cuthulu&#64;mouse-potato.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; &gt;&gt;
&gt; &gt;&gt;
&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;Anyway, there is plenty of video footage of factory farms and
&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;slaughterhouses available on the internet. Since seeing is believing,
&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;you should try to view some.
&gt; &gt;&gt;
&gt; &gt;&gt;
&gt; &gt;&gt; All I've seen are the worst of the worst. Where can we see
&gt; &gt;&gt; what it's like under normal conditions,
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt;How do you know that isn't normal, Fuckwit, you ignorant pig-fucker?
&gt;
&gt; I've only seen the worst

Then you should consider that normal, Fuckwit.

I hope that helps.

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