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#1: Re: Ku Ding Cha

Posted on 2006-07-10 15:19:32 by Space Cowboy

I find it curious Kuding is on the shelves with the teas and not in the
herbal section. Even chrysanthemum is in the herbal section. It
stumped me that qing shan lu shui means 'green mountain green water'
but I got the two characters for green.

Jim

<a href="mailto:teaismud&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">teaismud&#64;yahoo.com</a> wrote:
&gt; I like Kuding! Probably the one infusion (after tea - beer - water)
&gt; that I'll go for. I just wish I could say I could find hot water
&gt; 'anyway' I went anymore ... not even in bloody China can you get a
&gt; bloody thermos when you want one these days, and when working in
&gt; Hungary last week, the hotel had a (disguised - it took us a day ... )
&gt; minibar but no kettle ... otherwise, I'd be carrying with me a few
&gt; tuocha and a few sticks of kuding wherever I went ... um, having said
&gt; all that, my supply of qing shan lu shui looks like it will never
&gt; deplete (nor lose it's taste)
&gt;
&gt; ps, took Georgian black and shuang jing lu to hungary but survived on
&gt; teabag earl grey and eng break (when lucky), wolf saliva and edelweiss
&gt;
&gt; pps, Mydnight, please introduce me to the hussy ... I like beautiful
&gt; art, tea and plastic!
&gt;
&gt; cheers all,
&gt;
&gt; Immoral Hints of Cheese

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#2: Re: Ku Ding Cha

Posted on 2006-07-10 16:52:50 by dominictiberio

Space Cowboy wrote:
&gt; I find it curious Kuding is on the shelves with the teas and not in the
&gt; herbal section. Even chrysanthemum is in the herbal section. It
&gt; stumped me that qing shan lu shui means 'green mountain green water'
&gt; but I got the two characters for green.
&gt;
&gt; Jim

I find it curious that anyone finds this palatable. I have now tried
multiple infusions with all kinds of variables tweaked, and even a
whole different brand of Kuding that is in a pearl shape rather than
the spikes. I can't enjoy it. I like bitter things too, so it is a
mystery to me how anyone can have an even greater tolerance for bitter
than me but it must be.

I have seen it sold in herbal sections at a few places, and I bought
mine from the caffeine free section of herbal/decaf teas and as I was
informed in this thread that it does contain caffeine. I haven't been
able to confirm 100% that it does, but I'm guessing I was wrong and
that it does. Maybe that is why other places do not sell it in the
herbal section, I could imagine a number of problems with selling it as
herbal.

This is certainly not my cup of tea.

- Dominic

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#3: Re: Ku Ding Cha

Posted on 2006-07-10 17:20:12 by Alex

Space Cowboy wrote:
&gt; I find it curious Kuding is on the shelves with the teas and not in the
&gt; herbal section. Even chrysanthemum is in the herbal section. It
&gt; stumped me that qing shan lu shui means 'green mountain green water'
&gt; but I got the two characters for green.
&gt;
&gt; Jim

I find that strange too. I've had it maybe ten times in China, and
there is a bag of it in my fridge, but no one told me that it wasn't
tea. I like the stuff, but it just never occured to me that it wasn't
just a particularly bitter variant of Camellia Sinesis. I'm finding
this discussion very disorienting.

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#4: Re: Ku Ding Cha

Posted on 2006-07-10 17:49:47 by Mydnight

&gt; I find that strange too. I've had it maybe ten times in China, and
&gt; there is a bag of it in my fridge, but no one told me that it wasn't
&gt; tea. I like the stuff, but it just never occured to me that it wasn't
&gt; just a particularly bitter variant of Camellia Sinesis. I'm finding
&gt; this discussion very disorienting.

Well, most of the Chinese don't view tea in a scientific way. If you
can put it in water to boil, many would just consider it tea. Camellia
Sinesis is something that isn't heard too often. Most Chinese also
don't know the differences between kuding and green tea either. Kuding
is not drunk by that many people; it's also not really considered
medicinal, so that would be why they don't put it in the medicine
section.

Over in HK, I have seen a few shops that list it as medicinal. I have
also seen pu'er in many med shops as well.

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#5: Re: Ku Ding Cha

Posted on 2006-07-10 19:31:44 by Space Cowboy

My Kuding pearls is my only 'tea' that comes with a nutrition label:

Total fat .02g 1.00%
Sodium 1.2mg 6.85%
Total Carb 34.7g 9.3%
Hydroxybenzene 1.25g 25.00%

The above numbers tells me it was soaked in some kind of preservative.
Nice to know the government puts a cap on my daily crude oil derivative
intake. I guess no more licking my hands at the $3/gallon gas pump.

Jim

PS Maybe the same preservative for duck eggs some of which contains
lead.

Alex wrote:
&gt; Space Cowboy wrote:
&gt; &gt; I find it curious Kuding is on the shelves with the teas and not in the
&gt; &gt; herbal section. Even chrysanthemum is in the herbal section. It
&gt; &gt; stumped me that qing shan lu shui means 'green mountain green water'
&gt; &gt; but I got the two characters for green.
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; Jim
&gt;
&gt; I find that strange too. I've had it maybe ten times in China, and
&gt; there is a bag of it in my fridge, but no one told me that it wasn't
&gt; tea. I like the stuff, but it just never occured to me that it wasn't
&gt; just a particularly bitter variant of Camellia Sinesis. I'm finding
&gt; this discussion very disorienting.

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#6: Re: Ku Ding Cha

Posted on 2006-07-10 20:17:54 by dominictiberio

Space Cowboy wrote:
&gt; My Kuding pearls is my only 'tea' that comes with a nutrition label:
&gt;
&gt; Total fat .02g 1.00%
&gt; Sodium 1.2mg 6.85%
&gt; Total Carb 34.7g 9.3%
&gt; Hydroxybenzene 1.25g 25.00%
&gt;
&gt; The above numbers tells me it was soaked in some kind of preservative.
&gt; Nice to know the government puts a cap on my daily crude oil derivative
&gt; intake. I guess no more licking my hands at the $3/gallon gas pump.
&gt;
&gt; Jim
&gt;
&gt; PS Maybe the same preservative for duck eggs some of which contains
&gt; lead.

mmm... now with extra Hydroxybenzene! I sure hope that is for the
entire box and not per serving. After hearing about spray-painted
mushrooms, and added lead for weight, and a bunch of other wonderful
additives to many Asian products I'm a bit more wary of what I buy. Few
things scare me more than my trip to the Indian grocery today at lunch
where in their newly remodeled store they were selling boxes of Brooke
Bond Taj Mahal tea from 1992. At least they weren't more expensive due
to the vintage. I explained to the owner how old these boxes were, and
he assured me they would be sold first since they were placed at the
front of the stack... as if that was an acceptable answer. Ugh. There
is something to be said for food standards and inspections after all I
guess.

- Dominic

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#7: Re: Ku Ding Cha

Posted on 2006-07-11 16:47:58 by kludge

DogMa &lt;<a href="mailto:DogMa_I&#64;worldnet.att.net" target="_blank">DogMa_I&#64;worldnet.att.net</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;You sure that's what it says? Hydroxybenzene is another name for phenol,
&gt;the first-identified antiseptic. It's a preservative, all right, but
&gt;that's approaching a lethal dose. Not that this helps unless one has
&gt;encountered it elsewhere, but phenol is quite volatile and has a
&gt;characteristic odor.

Is it being used as a preservative, or does it naturally occur in the
plant?

Carbolic acid/phenol/hydroxybenzene would definitely make it taste
distinctively unpleasant, and it is something that does occur naturally
in some plants.
--scott


--
&quot;C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis.&quot;

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#8: Re: Ku Ding Cha

Posted on 2006-07-11 17:24:47 by dominictiberio

Scott Dorsey wrote:
&gt; Carbolic acid/phenol/hydroxybenzene would definitely make it taste
&gt; distinctively unpleasant, and it is something that does occur naturally
&gt; in some plants.
&gt; --scott

As opposed to the distinctively unpleasant flavor that it _should_
taste like without the hydroxybenzene ;)

- Dominic

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#9: Re: Ku Ding Cha

Posted on 2006-07-11 20:16:48 by kludge

Dominic T. &lt;<a href="mailto:dominictiberio&#64;gmail.com" target="_blank">dominictiberio&#64;gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;Scott Dorsey wrote:
&gt;&gt; Carbolic acid/phenol/hydroxybenzene would definitely make it taste
&gt;&gt; distinctively unpleasant, and it is something that does occur naturally
&gt;&gt; in some plants.
&gt;
&gt;As opposed to the distinctively unpleasant flavor that it _should_
&gt;taste like without the hydroxybenzene ;)

No, I am thinking that possibly the unpleasant flavour that it should have
might possibly be due to hydroxybenzine.
--scott
--
&quot;C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis.&quot;

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#10: Re: Ku Ding Cha

Posted on 2006-07-11 20:37:34 by dominictiberio

Scott Dorsey wrote:
&gt; Dominic T. &lt;<a href="mailto:dominictiberio&#64;gmail.com" target="_blank">dominictiberio&#64;gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; &gt;Scott Dorsey wrote:
&gt; &gt;&gt; Carbolic acid/phenol/hydroxybenzene would definitely make it taste
&gt; &gt;&gt; distinctively unpleasant, and it is something that does occur naturally
&gt; &gt;&gt; in some plants.
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt;As opposed to the distinctively unpleasant flavor that it _should_
&gt; &gt;taste like without the hydroxybenzene ;)
&gt;
&gt; No, I am thinking that possibly the unpleasant flavour that it should have
&gt; might possibly be due to hydroxybenzine.
&gt; --scott
&gt; --
&gt; &quot;C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis.&quot;

Whoosh. Yeah, I know, I was joking around (that was why I had the
little winky emoticon) I meant since the stuff tastes terrible
normally, how would you know if it was worse or if something was wrong
:) Especially since a lot of poisons are bitter, you'd be SOL trying to
figure out if your Ku Ding was poisoned or clean. I find it pretty
unpleasant in its pristine form, in fact I think I may find drinking
bleach or hot antifreeze more enjoyable.

- Dominic

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#11: Re: Ku Ding Cha

Posted on 2006-07-12 15:37:28 by Space Cowboy

Here is a chemical comparison of Kuding and Tea. There is no mention
of hydroxybenzene or another form. Looking at the numbers only the
abundance of flavonoids could account for the taste. It does answer
the question that Kuding contains no caffeine. I assume my nutrition
label must be wrong. I don't think a cup is that bad once in awhile.
I've drank astringent greens I thought tasted worse.

<a href="http://tinyurl.com/zvfk5" target="_blank">http://tinyurl.com/zvfk5</a>

Jim

Dominic T. wrote:
&gt; Scott Dorsey wrote:
&gt; &gt; Dominic T. &lt;<a href="mailto:dominictiberio&#64;gmail.com" target="_blank">dominictiberio&#64;gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; &gt; &gt;Scott Dorsey wrote:
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Carbolic acid/phenol/hydroxybenzene would definitely make it taste
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; distinctively unpleasant, and it is something that does occur naturally
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; in some plants.
&gt; &gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; &gt;As opposed to the distinctively unpleasant flavor that it _should_
&gt; &gt; &gt;taste like without the hydroxybenzene ;)
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; No, I am thinking that possibly the unpleasant flavour that it should have
&gt; &gt; might possibly be due to hydroxybenzine.
&gt; &gt; --scott
&gt; &gt; --
&gt; &gt; &quot;C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis.&quot;
&gt;
&gt; Whoosh. Yeah, I know, I was joking around (that was why I had the
&gt; little winky emoticon) I meant since the stuff tastes terrible
&gt; normally, how would you know if it was worse or if something was wrong
&gt; :) Especially since a lot of poisons are bitter, you'd be SOL trying to
&gt; figure out if your Ku Ding was poisoned or clean. I find it pretty
&gt; unpleasant in its pristine form, in fact I think I may find drinking
&gt; bleach or hot antifreeze more enjoyable.
&gt;
&gt; - Dominic

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#12: Re: Ku Ding Cha

Posted on 2006-07-12 16:11:11 by dominictiberio

Space Cowboy wrote:
&gt; Here is a chemical comparison of Kuding and Tea. There is no mention
&gt; of hydroxybenzene or another form. Looking at the numbers only the
&gt; abundance of flavonoids could account for the taste. It does answer
&gt; the question that Kuding contains no caffeine. I assume my nutrition
&gt; label must be wrong. I don't think a cup is that bad once in awhile.
&gt; I've drank astringent greens I thought tasted worse.
&gt;
&gt; <a href="http://tinyurl.com/zvfk5" target="_blank">http://tinyurl.com/zvfk5</a>
&gt;
&gt; Jim

Well, at least my silly little post about my bad time with Kuding Cha
has had some benefit. We confirmed that it is indeed non-caffeinated
and that is most certainly should not contain over 1g of hydroxybenzene
for every 3g of Kuding, I'm still hoping that is a misprint or grossly
miscalculated. In my own findings, I'm amazed that there are truly some
folks out there who would willingly drink this when there are so many
wonderful and intoxicating brews available. My entrance and exit from
the world of Kuding has been completed.

- Dominic

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#13: Re: Ku Ding Cha

Posted on 2006-07-13 17:27:16 by Mydnight

&gt; Well, at least my silly little post about my bad time with Kuding Cha
&gt; has had some benefit. We confirmed that it is indeed non-caffeinated
&gt; and that is most certainly should not contain over 1g of hydroxybenzene
&gt; for every 3g of Kuding, I'm still hoping that is a misprint or grossly
&gt; miscalculated. In my own findings, I'm amazed that there are truly some
&gt; folks out there who would willingly drink this when there are so many
&gt; wonderful and intoxicating brews available. My entrance and exit from
&gt; the world of Kuding has been completed.
&gt;
&gt; - Dominic

You should keep in mind the following before you pass total judgement:


1. His tea came in a box and is not fresh.
2. It's meant for export; which basically means no holds-barred.

You can get perfectly good Kuding around here without too many chemical
additives. I still recommend the qing shan lv shui. It's very nice at
small quanities.

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